The car now runs 6 degrees cooler I suppose when you have a nasty thin aircon rad blocking your coolant flow then it will run cooler,In anycase who needs aircon in the UK,all it does is reduce bhp and use more fuel :cool: ;)

Define dangerous. If you asked an enviromentalist, they would tell you it damamges the ozone and you shouldnt breathe it. Ask me, and Id say , Ive done 3 to date and I am not typing from the other side :)

 

its shite for the enviroment but harmless to us!(unless its passed over a naked flame, so dont vent the stuff if you work by candle light :nono: )

i got rif too , my water temp guage never goes higher than 82 degrees and even now drops to 60 degrees!! probably thanks to half the work ztech have carried out !! but defo noticed the difference with air con on and off. Had an rx7 before and made a major powerdrain when on on that puppy.

 

If it drops to 60 then either your temp gauge or your thermostat are screwed !

The car now runs 6 degrees cooler

 

It's the thermostat in the cooling water system that sets the engine water temperature. So it does not make any sense that said thermostat would suddenly decide to leave the engine 6 deg cooler cos the aircon is gone unless the stat was now jamming open. Cool running is a sign of a sick stat and a radiator in good condition doesnt care whether aircon is on or off or even fitted. Plus in this weather there is bu99er all thermal load on it anyway. So a good stat would compensate back to whatever the correct running water temperature should be. Alternatively your engine is dumping much more heat than the cooling system can handle due to the engine mods and if so you are in trouble come summer if 6 deg means so much now.

 

And the aircon circuitry does drop off the compressor clutch to release more power while you have your foot on the floor but the climate control system keeps on blowing hot or cold whatever selected meantime and assumes your foot cant stay there forever.

 

Aircon loading is highest when the car is not moving at all and very low when it is. The faster its moving the more efficient as a cooler it is.

 

If you really dont need chilling or demisting there is always the econ switch. It'll save fuel if often stuck in traffic but not so much on the open road.

 

A lot of people dont seem to realise that the aircon needs using at least every couple of weeks to avoid compressor seizure or seal damage.

 

Anyway mine chilled beautifully on a hot August jammed on the m25 for hours and the engine temp stayed fine. Figured it to be the toughest test the system could have. Defo for keeping.

Drag caused by opening your windows, uses as much fues nd power as you aircon does.

Drag caused by opening your windows, uses as much fues nd power as you aircon does.

 

is that why the screen washers are tear shaped into the flow of air (daft i know but its not like that for nothing) :rolleyes:

so everyone , i want to do this

 

where do i start?

 

what am i removing and where from? any pics would be great

 

cheers

It's the thermostat in the cooling water system that sets the engine water temperature. So it does not make any sense that said thermostat would suddenly decide to leave the engine 6 deg cooler cos the aircon is gone unless the stat was now jamming open..

 

The thermostat does control the water temp yes!

So what would happen if you reduced airflow to the rad with a large sheet of cardboard,would the engine run at the same temp?

The thermostat does control the water temp yes!

So what would happen if you reduced airflow to the rad with a large sheet of cardboard,would the engine run at the same temp?

 

Macca stop taking the p*ss. The thermostat controls the temp at which water starts to flow round the circuit. So it's always at whatever WilleO said no matter what you do to your rad / aircon. But if you reduce airflow like you said, than engine would heat up quicker and then, once the heat produced by the engine can't be taken away (cos you reduced the airflow) blow up quicker.

 

Mac, you know that throwing money at the best Zed parts and Zed engineers can improve certain aspects of the Zed. But the people who have the knowledge and experience (and money!) to do this successfully are few and far between.

Macca stop taking the p*ss. The thermostat controls the temp at which water starts to flow round the circuit. So it's always at whatever WilleO said no matter what you do to your rad / aircon. But if you reduce airflow like you said, than engine would heat up quicker and then, once the heat produced by the engine can't be taken away (cos you reduced the airflow) blow up quicker.

 

Mac, you know that throwing money at the best Zed parts and Zed engineers can improve certain aspects of the Zed. But the people who have the knowledge and experience (and money!) to do this successfully are few and far between.

 

So true, we would all love to spend silly money on our cars

Macca stop taking the p*ss. The thermostat controls the temp at which water starts to flow round the circuit. So it's always at whatever WilleO said no matter what you do to your rad / aircon. But if you reduce airflow like you said, than engine would heat up quicker and then, once the heat produced by the engine can't be taken away (cos you reduced the airflow) blow up quicker.

 

Mac, you know that throwing money at the best Zed parts and Zed engineers can improve certain aspects of the Zed. But the people who have the knowledge and experience (and money!) to do this successfully are few and far between.

 

Gio I am NOT taking the piss! If you reduce the airflow to the rad it will run hotter,by removing the aircon rad from infront of the coolant rad am I not increasing air flow to it? YES I am :rolleyes: Hello are the lights on? now thats taking the piss :mad:

So true, we would all love to spend silly money on our cars

 

Yes and your point is?

true this, removing air con will increase bhp and fuel economy

 

it is one of the first things to get binned when constructing a rally or race car.

To be honest i am not much in favour of the aircon on a Z,couple years back sitting in traffic on a very hot day Z water temp gets way hot,was worried to say least,turnend off air con and the temp went down to a less worrying level,since then no confidence,and every summer we get stories on here of "my temp gauge just went off scale",and i have met a few at meets etc that have had same as me,on a number of times the aircon was on,in fact i tried a test with my last Z,i used Red Line water wetter and the temp still went up with air con on while in traffic,so that was the nail in the coffin for it,i would rather have peace of mind with it removed,more air flow to the rad,less for the crank pully to move,not saying everyone has this trouble of course,as we all know that two Zs are never the same and one will perform ok another not.

 

Tony :)

i junked mine ages ago - and it deffinatly frees up power on the NA

 

like you say - who needs air con in the UK and with a targa

I lived without aircon for 2 years (needed a regas :rolleyes: ) and it was a PITA. Girlfriend wouldn't get in the car in summer because it was like a fooking green house (no targe blinds either). Got it regassed and it was a joy to drive again..

 

I wouldn't be without it :cool:

 

Steve :)

Gio I am NOT taking the piss! If you reduce the airflow to the rad it will run hotter,by removing the aircon rad from infront of the coolant rad am I not increasing air flow to it? YES I am :rolleyes: Hello are the lights on? now thats taking the piss :mad:

 

Mac, I think I've untangled what I thought I meant. You said your car ran 6 deg cooler after ditching the aircon. WillieO said that couldn't happen because the thermostat would wait until the temp got up to the old temp. You said what would happen if the airflow would get restricted and, of course we agree the temp would go sky high.

 

So I think the point is that the thermostat governs the min running temp of the engine (with or without aircon) so we don't understand why your car would suddenly run 6 deg cooler without changing the thermostat.

 

OTOH, restricting the airflow (by aircon or cardboard), the max running temp of the engine would be higher.

 

I think. :D memo don't get into engineering arguments when pissed :duffer:

threw mine out on last engine change, loads of room to work around there now, as it never worked in the three years Ive owned the zed, its not fooking missed either

Gio I am NOT taking the piss! If you reduce the airflow to the rad it will run hotter,by removing the aircon rad from infront of the coolant rad am I not increasing air flow to it? YES I am :rolleyes: Hello are the lights on? now thats taking the piss :mad:

 

Hmm, I think there's two sides to this coin:

 

1. (Posed by Willieo etc)

Even if it was -20 outside, and assuming the thermostat was working correctly, the engine would still warm up to normal temp ~85C and ONLY at this point would the thermostat open slighty to let a little collant flow into the rad.

 

2. (my preferred reason)

The second argument is this: because thermostats open a little very early on, it is actually possible to run slighty cooler - but probably only when driving, (when the rad is transferring more heat to more cooler air) i.e the thermostat does just go 'ping' and open when the engine is at the right temp, rather, it creeps open gradually, thereby have a slight cooling effect of water which still isn't at the ideal temp. Removing the condensor, or anything that impedes the ait flow to the rad will exaggerate the cooling effect simply because more air is passing through.

 

Hope this stops a punch up :)

 

Simon.

Hmm, I think there's two sides to this coin:

 

1. (Posed by Willieo etc)

Even if it was -20 outside, and assuming the thermostat was working correctly, the engine would still warm up to normal temp ~85C and ONLY at this point would the thermostat open slighty to let a little collant flow into the rad.

 

2. (my preferred reason)

The second argument is this: because thermostats open a little very early on, it is actually possible to run slighty cooler - but probably only when driving, so the rad is transferting more heat to more cooler air i.e the thermostat does just go 'ping' and open when the engine is at the right temp, rather, it creeps open gradually, thereby have a slight cooling effect of water which still isn't at the ideal temp. Removing the condensor, or anything that impedes the ait flow to the rad will exaggerate the cooling effect simply because more air is passing through.

 

Hope this stops a punch up :)

 

Simon.

 

 

LOL hello Simon,no punch ups over air con I hope;)

 

On a serious note TonyC's car also runs cooler with it junked,so Its not just me having a funny turn ;)

LOL hello Simon,no punch ups over air con I hope;)

 

On a serious note TonyC's car also runs cooler with it junked,so Its not just me having a funny turn ;)

 

To be honest, I wouldn't expect a punch up nor even a soaking at billing next year :)

 

I would imagine the cooling effect to be greater in this cooler weather anyway, I guess in the summer you wouldn't notice.

looking here at both sides from on the fence,but i might get off the fence and mention that when i lived in california and spotted zeds on a daily basis,in 125 degrees f,all running air-con,stuck in traffic jams ,with no probs, have they got something we dont,except £1.25 a gallon,long untangled roads,autozone on every corner,no road salt,--i better shut up coz ime gettin depressed but do ya get the piture lads,we get a poxy 5 days heat and our zeds fall apart-WHY????????/

The thermostat does control the water temp yes!

So what would happen if you reduced airflow to the rad with a large sheet of cardboard,would the engine run at the same temp?

By MAC 1

 

Suppose the radiator can dump 100kW heat as a max at a given ambient temp and the engine generates less than 100kW heat loss even at max power then no overheating will occur under any driving conditions and the thermstat will keep the temp at the optimum. If you then cover 90% of the rad with cardboard then it essentially cannot dump any more than 10kW so the engine will run at a higher than normal temp whenever it is generating more than 10kW of heat losses. It will overheat and die quickly at full power output. However it will run at normal temp whenever the heat generated is 10kW or less. It wont run hotter unless heat output exceeds what the rad can get rid of. It wont run cooler just because you take away the cardboard over the 90% even if its only dumping 10kW because the thermostat will throttle back the water flow to maintain the correct engine temp. Same argument goes for the aircon rad removal.

 

What you can get in extremely cold weather is the stat remaining closed and the heater core inside the car dumping enough heat inside the car to keep the engine temp below stat opening temp if all you are doing is slow driving. Then the engine temp will be lower than normal.

 

So while junking the aircon rad might increase the total max amount of heat the rad can get rid of, perhaps by 10%-20% even, it can't make it run cooler than the thermostat decides when less heat is being generated. Only a duff or sticking stat can do that. The rest is wishful thinking or inaccurate guages imho. If the engine can never generate more than the hypothetical 100kW and the rad can actually dump all of this or more even with the aircon fitted then there's no reason to junk the aircon unless its broke and you cant afford to fix it or you are a track junkie and need all the cooling and weight loss you can get.

 

What I would agree with is what happens at max speed. My old 240Z would always sit happy at normal temp except when flat out in hot weather where it would gradually head for the hot end of the guage. Under those conditions the heat generated clearly exceeded the rads capacity to dump it. Perhaps it was due to some furring up of the core or perhaps the cooling system was never rated for flat out running. After all when and where can you do it these days? My TT has never ever been anywhere near flat out cos I'd like to keep my license and liberty. It also stays at normal temp even with 30C and aircon on in heavy traffic.

sorry did I write all that :) Its the engineer in me trying to get out. Must get out more!

The rest is wishful thinking or inaccurate guages imho.

 

LOL WillieO stop trying to lose me with your large tec replies;)

 

As you are probably aware I have an after market water temp gauge, now when Peter and I were out road testing he commented on how accurate it was as we compared it the laptop reading taken from the DTA engine management.

So that theory of an inaccurate gauge is out the window, now what?

:wack:

eeee when i woz a lad air con was a windy thing on the door

up for heat, down for cool :p

 

when i used to swop a triumph stag engine as much as switching the kettle on,

when you were lucky if the cars didnt rust before the running in period was over,

when mods was a gang of scooter boys off to the seaside on bank holidays,

uprated suspension was summat me nan and grandad used to keep their teeth in with,

when the only people who drove flash cars were bank robbers (strange the coppers didn't notice :confused: )

and the only toyota was a tonka :tongue: