Hi Guys,

I have a howie rad which has a pretty big core (1/4" thicker than the koyo to give an idea).

 

Anyone here running an aftermarket rad without the viscious fan (i.e. aftermarket electric fan).

 

Easy to fit ?.

Can you notice quicker turbo spool up without the viscious ?

If you are using the term boiling meaning hot no problem, but I believe the water in the system does not boil until over 100+ degrees because it is pressurised!

 

 

Ok Mark I was just using the word boiling,What I meant to say was It's very hot! Now anyone that think's it is not,then take your car out for a spin and get it up to working temp,then hold the top rad hose tightly in your hand for as long as you can:D;)

 

 

BTW you cannot have a larger or faster water pump fitted because of the problems with something called cavitation, this occurs when you overrun the supply. Causing vapour bubbles to be created in the coolant and the flow would be less than usual.

 

 

I know that Mark,but he was saying that my rad holds a lot more water than a stock one,and the stock pump had more to cope with;)

OW!!

 

As I haven't got my car I tried a kettle. It hurts!

 

 

Simon( :xxx: )

OW!!

 

As I haven't got my car I tried a kettle. It hurts!

 

 

Simon( :xxx: )

 

:rofl: This place cracks me up :bow:

LOL, well maybe im just a non-conformist :D but,

im not trying to teach granny how to suck eggs, and i think the guys theory

is good, smaller end caps = less hot coolant being stored = more efficient cooling, but.. :D

in practice i think just maybe it might have the opposite effect and bigger end caps might be slightly better than smaller, reason being that the overall coolant capacity will be greater and more coolant will be outside the engine being cooled at any one time.

Sorry im not trying to be cantankerous :x:

i think it just comes naturally to me :hyper:

Now, wheres that kettle..

Sorry it's down the bottom of the garden where I threw it, when I burnt my fingers.

 

 

 

Simon :(

Just like to mention that its a good idea to run Redline Water Wetter in rad,can drop the temp by up to 15 degrees,i think Stuart noticed at the RR session how low my temp was compard to others :)

Tony

LOL, well maybe im just a non-conformist :D but,

im not trying to teach granny how to suck eggs, and i think the guys theory

is good, smaller end caps = less hot coolant being stored = more efficient cooling, but.. :D

in practice i think just maybe it might have the opposite effect and bigger end caps might be slightly better than smaller, reason being that the overall coolant capacity will be greater and more coolant will be outside the engine being cooled at any one time.

Sorry im not trying to be cantankerous :x:

i think it just comes naturally to me :hyper:

Now, wheres that kettle..

 

LOL Don't have to say sorry Trevs,everyone it entiteled to their opinion and their belief;)

The coolant moves heat from inside the engine to outside, and it can only move a certain amount of heat per amount of coolant. You gotta move that heat. So if you want to move more you can...

 

Get more cooling capacity per pint of coolant:

 

1/ Make the temperature drop between the radiator and engine bigger with a better core or higher airflow

 

2/ Make heat transfer between the coolant and the rad better - which is what Tony's additive does

 

3/ Make the same amount of coolant able to transfer more heat by changing how hard it is to warm it or cool it - by changing the water/antifreeze ratio, and the additives probably diddle that too

 

Or

 

4/ Get more coolant. However, if you've got more coolant, you've got to make it pass through the radiator faster to obtain the same cooling effect, because you're carrying less heat per pint. There's only a fixed amount of heat in the system, so more coolant = less cooling per volume of coolant. If you add coolant without changing flow speed, your coolant will run at lower temperature (you've diluted the heat), and therefore will transfer heat less quickly in the radiator, and therefore in terms of TOTAL heat you'll probably end up with more.

 

The question is always where the bottleneck is. An uprated rad means you can move more heat per pint - so I can't see the point of the larger end caps since you don't NEED any more coolant, because you're now getting more cooling out of the existing amount. By buying an uprated rad you're going for more cooling per pint, so what's the point in adding more pints as well?

 

Er, none of that makes much sense, but I agree, larger end caps are counterproductive unless you're using the full specific heat capacity of the coolant you've got already.

 

If you add bigger end tanks and you stay with the same water pump, you've probably gone backwards in terms of total heat.

Just to confuse the issue even more!!

 

You cannot have a larger/quicker water pump because you will overun the supply causing even more cooling problems!

 

Water wetter does not make coolant transfer heat better in the radiator, it reduces the surface tension of the water. When the coolant goes through the turbos it boils, these steam vapour bubbles then have difficulty rentering the coolant because of the waters surface tension. Water wetter reduces the surface tension of the water, helping stop the steam vapour pooling in the system and causing hot spots in the engine!

I think we're violently agreeing - reducing the surface tension helps reduce cavitation like what you say, AND it helps the water adsorb onto any aluminium... including radiator fins and the block (and all the flashings and swarf in cylinder 6 ;) )

 

Anyway, after swapping PMs with a few people I think I've talked myself into it, I'm off to Halfords!

 

Anyway, after swapping PMs with a few people I think I've talked myself into it, I'm off to Halfords!

 

What for a Howie rad? Or an electric fan kit?:D;)

I think we're violently agreeing - reducing the surface tension helps reduce cavitation like what you say, AND it helps the water adsorb onto any aluminium... including radiator fins and the block (and all the flashings and swarf in cylinder 6 ;) )

 

Anyway, after swapping PMs with a few people I think I've talked myself into it, I'm off to Halfords!

 

Not diasagreeing with you on any of your points just trying to clarify a few issues for everyone.

 

No reducing the surface tension does not reduce cavitation. Cavitation and boiling are two different things!

 

If you look at a pond in the summer you will see those bugs called water boatmen, they literally walk on the water or to be more exact the surface tension of the water. The water bubbles created by the steam coming off the turbos have a difficult time breaking that surface tension and re-entering the cooling system, which is where water wetter comes into play reducing that surface tension.

 

Cavitation is the creation of water vapour due to the water being stretched to the point where it has no other option but to turn to vapour.

 

Which is what would happen if you put in a larger or faster water pump, the pump would want water at a rate faster than the cooling system could supply it at, giving us cavitation!

 

There is also no point in moving the water faster, as the water has an optimum rate over which it will pass cooling fins, and transfer heat to the exterior.

 

I was talking about Rads with Andrew Glen the other day and I think we both agree that bigger radiators (they only cooling upgrade for a zed), only become effective when racing or your current cooling system is in trouble!

 

Which lets face it, the Rads on zed are ten years old and are full of loads of crap, in fact the last one I backwashed was full of crud!

That's good for me, Topless, makes sense.

 

So would you use Waterwetter, seeing as we've hijacked the thread good and proper now?

:D Yes maybe even two bottles, I think you have to buy them from delta oils have never seen them in ol'frauds