I for one have found the debate about turbo size interesting and its one of the things i love about the zed - that for not huge amounts of money people can completely re-model their car to get what they want to achieve out of it.

 

so i say carry on with the debate and for those who have the balls and money to try something different (whatever it may be) good luck to you.

 

Well i've come to a revelation tonight (after 1 bottle of wine) so it might be *****x but what the hell. my views on turbos have been widely expressed and it basically comes down to the assumption that a responsive 450 bhp car will be quicker to drive day to day and maybe even in the 1/4 mile than a 600 bhp car. What evidence do i have for this - NONE - its just my gut feeling.

 

This is why i opted for smithy's roller bearing turbos and have been tweaking my zed for responsiveness (fidanza flywheel vernier pulleys, custom ecu map etc).

 

The one thing that bugged me was seeing smaller cars running bigger turbos. The 300zx turbo upgrade at SE is the T28, which can be found on the 200SX S14 and the pulsar (N10 i think).

 

Well to my way of thinking i couldn’t understand why cars with smaller engines were running bigger turbos. Only tonight after 1 bottle of wine did i realise that these cars were running bigger engines that the 300zx. Because we run a V6 twin our effective engine size when looking at compressor maps should be 1 1/2 litres per turbo.

 

So.... I am more convinced than ever that the way to go to get a quick car is not to bolt on ever bigger turbos but to look for efficiencies. Maybe driving a twin turbo car has made us lazy and we should look to the likes of the people tuning NA cars for performance increases.

 

If you like this post and it increases the debate then good - if you think its a load of *****x then ignore it

 

:D

 

Regards,

 

alex

I ain't one of the "big yins" in this club but for what my opinion is worth...I totally agree with you mate.

 

With the greatest respect to those building with big bhp in mind (and believe me I'm impressed by what some people have done/are doing out there in this area), I'd rather have a car that is "quick" i.e. 400-450 bhp and still responsive and chuckable round the twisties than a straight line monster. IMHO that's half the fun;)

 

Leigh

It all boils down to what you enjoy doing?

 

I would enjoy putting my ideas together to make a 600bhp car and getting it to run right, but I don't think I would enjoy driving it!

Alex, yer maybe a bit pissed fella, but yer still speak some sense :) Friday you maybe a newbie, but least your on the right track mate in my opinion ;)

cheers

smithy :cool:

Originally posted by _cj_

 

So.... I am more convinced than ever that the way to go to get a quick car is not to bolt on ever bigger turbos but to look for efficiencies. Maybe driving a twin turbo car has made us lazy and we should look to the likes of the people tuning NA cars for performance increases.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

alex

 

Ok Alex my 10P worth about the above;)

 

Right what to you call a quick car?

 

Where do you want the kick up the arse feeling?

 

Off the lights or mid range G Force?

 

If I wanted an off the lights killer,sticking with Nissan I would tune the guts out of a Pulsar, dont know how I would fit in the thing though:o No Z will live with a seriously tuned one off the lights IMHO!:o

 

Now what floats my boat is Brute force mid range and top speed runs,now that's something that small turbos will not acheive, again IMHO!

 

Just look at the tubs fitted to the Skylines at TOTB all monsters;)

when you are still pulling strong at 170mph+ there is no better feeling IMHO:cool:

There is such thing as too much power, to the point where it will make the performance of the car suffer. If you look at the WRC especially a few year ago, the lesser team like Skoda, Hyundi etc who have less technoligical advances on the car and the car its self is probably 40bhp down than the main competitors, would find themselves up there with the rest on stages where it was very slippy. I used to watch BTCC a lot when I was younger, and I noticed that when it rained the privateers would be a lot higher than they usually are in the race. I think the first Privateer to win a race was in rain. I cant remember it too much but I remember it happening.

The point to all of this, is more power is not always better.

 

But you modify your car to what you want it to be like and what it will be use for. Personally I love driving and I love going for long drives be it down motorways or through country roads. And for that 400-450bhp is a good power. Its powerful enough accelerate well, but its not too much to make it a pain to drive in the wet.

 

There is a video on Kazaa where 4 or 5 Skylines which have been modified are taken around a track. The best one they said was not the most powerful. I think it was the 2nd lowest out of the 5. There where some with load of power there and the driver commented that it was too powerful and he was a pro driver.

 

Stuart

You also have traction to think of. I already have trouble getting the power down properly with 400 bhp, let alone 600bhp !!!

 

I have uprated suspension all round and 285/30/18 rear tyres (bridgestones) and allthough the grip is there I can light them up any time I want with the accelerator !

 

Once rolling its a different matter and the midrange is wicked, my other half says her stomach goes every time I put my foot down, I love that, and with 600bhp sure it will be even more fun, but as soon as I come to a corner or its wet you wouldn't want to floor it without a lot of trouble (o.k. fun, but scarey).

 

Now I have a very quick car, I am looking into ways of making it easier to use that power I've got, without wasting it.

 

My 2p.

 

Olly.

Originally posted by MAC 1

Ok Alex my 10P worth about the above;)

 

Right what to you call a quick car?

 

 

 

If I wanted an off the lights killer,sticking with Nissan I would tune the guts out of a Pulsar, dont know how I would fit in the thing though:o No Z will live with a seriously tuned one off the lights IMHO!:o

 

 

 

your not wrong there - those tuned pulsars are unbelievable - everytime you get in one its like having pastic surgery on your face :rofl:

Well I'm still working on my nitrogen separator for the intake. Think about it. 4/5ths of all that your big turbos stuff into your engine is nitrogen - which is not much use. Dont think more think different! If you can separate just one fifth of the nitrogen out of the gas that gets to the intake manifold then your oxygen portion is up by 20% and so's the bhp with appropriate mapping for the O2 richer air!

 

Isnt it just what nos is - another way to get more O2 in?

 

Now how to make a small nitrogen separator that can handle the air a zed needs and fit into the nose area. Thats the problem;)

Personally I'm not interested in big top speeds, I want it so my zed is repsonsive form 0-130 mph, zero lag ect ect

 

this thread simply highlights that its all about what you want your car to be, 600BHP on tap with zero lag would obviously be ideal :)

i just like it in 2nd gear when you floor it and your passenger( my mate with the tvr chimera) says OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAA its makin me head feel light. he dident get much stick in the pub about it i can tell you:D also i like it on the motorway when theres a big 7 series up your arse at about 80 then you boot it:)

Originally posted by WillieO

Well I'm still working on my nitrogen separator for the intake. Think about it. 4/5ths of all that your big turbos stuff into your engine is nitrogen - which is not much use. Dont think more think different! If you can separate just one fifth of the nitrogen out of the gas that gets to the intake manifold then your oxygen portion is up by 20% and so's the bhp with appropriate mapping for the O2 richer air!

 

Isnt it just what nos is - another way to get more O2 in?

 

Now how to make a small nitrogen separator that can handle the air a zed needs and fit into the nose area. Thats the problem;)

 

well that should be quite easy - you obviously dont want to use carbon sivs because of the pressure swing characteristics, but a couple of nice big in line membranes should do the job however your still going to run into the lag problems again because you still need the volume of air flow which would mean bigger turbos.

 

What might me quite interesting is mounting a couple of membranes onto a ram air scoop which would enrich the charge air to the turbo - that way you dont need bigger turbos to get the air volume - you just increase the O2 content.

 

hmm - its a possibility - but it would only work at high speeds like a ram jet :D

 

Regards,

 

alex

Originally posted by WillieO

Well I'm still working on my nitrogen separator for the intake.

 

You just need a load of soil and some clover in your stock airbox according to this:

 

http://www.killerplants.com/weird-plants/20030710.asp

 

Easy peasy! :dance:

I just love take off - falling back in my seat - looking afterwards in my mirror and seeing everyone still at the lights.

 

Yes,

 

geoff.

Originally posted by _cj_

 

Well i've come to a revelation tonight (after 1 bottle of wine) so it might be *****x but what the hell. my views on turbos have been widely expressed and it basically comes down to the assumption that a responsive 450 bhp car will be quicker to drive day to day and maybe even in the 1/4 mile than a 600 bhp car. What evidence do i have for this - NONE - its just my gut feeling.

 

This is why i opted for smithy's roller bearing turbos and have been tweaking my zed for responsiveness (fidanza flywheel vernier pulleys, custom ecu map etc).

 

 

 

alex

 

Alex I have been looking into your revelation;)

 

So why does this guy want bigger and better?

 

Big powerfull turbos= good 1/4 mile times IMHO;)

 

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/showthread.php?threadid=16493

For a manufactured comparison look at Escort RS Turbos, they had to have big turbos for the homologation, soon as that was done they went to smaller ones.

Everyone I spoke to and read about said they were just as fast but far nicer with the small turbo.

Originally posted by MAC 1

Alex I have been looking into your revelation;)

 

So why does this guy want bigger and better?

 

Big powerfull turbos= good 1/4 mile times IMHO;)

 

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/showthread.php?threadid=16493

 

HI Mac,

 

does big turbos = quick 1/4 mile times

 

i really dont know but to my way of thinking big turbos are better for hard acceleration in 4th and 5th - considering a really good gate speed for us would be 115 and we can do 100 in third do big turbos = a quick 1/4 mile time.

 

Its going to be an interesting year next year :D

 

Regards,

 

alex

Originally posted by _cj_

HI Mac,

 

does big turbos = quick 1/4 mile times

 

i really dont know but to my way of thinking big turbos are better for hard acceleration in 4th and 5th - considering a really good gate speed for us would be 115 and we can do 100 in third do big turbos = a quick 1/4 mile time.

 

Its going to be an interesting year next year :D

 

Regards,

 

alex

 

LOL interesting topic this and no :mac1: :slap: yet.

 

Ok I would say off the lights the smaller tubs will be spooled and gone,however when the big Greddy tubs spool, it will make the smaller turbos look like emmm how can I put it a N/A;)

Mac, are yer using a UK supllier for yer Greddy's mate ? just that as you know ANY Turbo's can develop a fault or the engine does which points towards turbo's at fault, any turbo supplier is obliged to sort out any probs that appear and helpout with costs incurred, which can be big bucks :( in short yer gaurantee is with them NOT greddy. just thought i'd let yer know given the costs involved here.

cheers

smithy :cool:

Originally posted by Smithy

Mac, are yer using a UK supllier for yer Greddy's mate ? just that as you know ANY Turbo's can develop a fault or the engine does which points towards turbo's at fault, any turbo supplier is obliged to sort out any probs that appear and helpout with costs incurred, which can be big bucks :( in short yer gaurantee is with them NOT greddy. just thought i'd let yer know given the costs involved here.

cheers

smithy :cool:

 

Spoke with Turbo Technics about this and they have said that if there turbo's are faulty they WILL NOT pay anything toward the cost of re-fitting one of there faulty products :confused:

Originally posted by Smithy

Mac, are yer using a UK supllier for yer Greddy's mate ? just that as you know ANY Turbo's can develop a fault or the engine does which points towards turbo's at fault, any turbo supplier is obliged to sort out any probs that appear and helpout with costs incurred, which can be big bucks :( in short yer gaurantee is with them NOT greddy. just thought i'd let yer know given the costs involved here.

cheers

smithy :cool:

 

I know all about that Smithy,I know of a few people that has happened to:(:(:(,the money I am going to save buying them via Japan,is justifiable against things going wrong and having to pay another £600 to have another set fitted.

 

Uk Supplier price is £4500+vat:mac1: Blair you:xxx:

Originally posted by bagins

Spoke with Turbo Technics about this and they have said that if there turbo's are faulty they WILL NOT pay anything toward the cost of re-fitting one of there faulty products :confused:

 

Gees that's bad, bet if yer had any other car they would. The Zeds labour costs can be quite large on this job hence why they don't. Fortunately this only happened once on a set i sold and i paid to have a full inspection report done AND paid towards fitting costs and delivery of new.

Well yer know where to buy yer new tubs from eh :D

but i don't any others than i already list.

cheers

smithy :cool: