Hi Zsters. Just after a bit of technical help:

Can anyone tell me what detonation sounds like and when it normally occurs. I understand what it is but have never actually experienced it.

I ask this because I have been to SE Nissan today the have a new chip fitted. On the way there the car was fine, on the way back funny noise at high revs in 3rd gear. But the boost was not even adjusted. Just chip fitted.

If I was to do an ecu check would the detonation sensor still pick it up if it is?

 

Cheers for any help in this matter. Paul.

 

It can vary from a ringing noise (like a small bell).. to the sound of pebbles in a can (which is heavy detonation)

 

The ECU won't show if you experienced detonation..unless you're monitoring the ECU while driving (with a Consult or Techtom)

The ECU will only show an error if the det.-sensor is broken

 

I hope this makes any sense..

 

-Eric

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by lymon (edited 03-08-2001).]

(im not saying anything..ppphhggffbahahahahahahahahahaha)

 

but really, it is a funny sound like a bunch of nuts and bolts being shaken around in a tin can.

i guess i only learned what it was when my Pistons melted....

 

Further to this question.

If I potter along up the road and get into 4th at about 40mph-ish the engine seems to make a tappy noise... is this detonation??

It prolly is, but I can expect lots of snide remarks about driving at 40 in 4th hehe

Seriously tho, I dont want no detonation or pinking so I better stay in 3rd eh?

Is the low rev. pinking dangerous?

 

 

 

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Glen

Hmmmmmmmmmm !! been to SE have ya, rattly kind of sound when pushing the revs, is no good at all, that chip would i assume amongst other things alter the timming at certain rev points, be safe NOW don't go back, go to another tuner who will happily attach a scope on to the head and race ya car round the block, this is the 1 sure way to know, they may be able to adjust the timming to suit, then tell SE of the results.

Smithy p.s your not the first to have this done then worry about detting or pinking noises.

glen - pinking (or detonation) is always bad bad bad bad..

 

ok so light pinking isn't too bad, but over a long period of time it *will* destroy your block/piston crowns/rings etc (basically anything in contact with the flame front in the piston)..

 

haven't you got a techtom (or am i imagining that?).. if so, watch the BCSV value to see if you are going into safety boost when running at 40 in 4th (you probably can't tell from the boost gauge obviously, since you're not gonna be boosting much at that point).. that is.. if your det. sensor is working properly and can actually pick up the detonation.. (not very reliable on any car..)

 

btw - you can make just about any car detonate given the right revs/load/gear.. even my NA Reno 19 16v will do it at low rpm in too high a gear with too high a load.. (unless i'm running on super)..

 

Az

 

[This message has been edited by aaronjb (edited 04-08-2001).]

The only thing my car does when pushing the revs old chap, is overtake things

Nah, just noticed a little pinkeroonies when pushing down the go pedal at 40 when in fourth.

All cars do that, and nothing to worry about methinks.

 

 

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Glen

am i correct in thinking you generally only hear pinking at low rpm cause at higher rpm other noises drown it out, so maby if you are pinking at low rpm, you shall be at high rpm?

all cars dont do that senna, you need to get something adjusted.

 

have you been playing with those air/fuel gadgets ?

 

you need to run higher octane, or get the timing sorted out, at least investigate why it is detonating....

 

az, it is possible to get any car detonating under the right conditions, but those conditions wont be right

Take the car back and get the chip removed, NOW!!!

 

The pinking is caused because of the changes made to the timming and or fuelling, the values of which are stored in the chip fitted.

 

The only way on a TURBO car to guarantee its not happening at higher revs is to attach a stephoscope (what doctors check your heart with), and listen to the engine. The reason for this is that you wont here the pinking over the engine on a turbo car. If you had a normally aspirated car the pinking would get louder.

 

The only other option is to get SE to check the car with the chip in whilst its running, and adjust the map to remove the pinking. This can be either timming or mixture. I would guess its probably mixture. They can check this if they have done their mapping properly by using a gauge to show the air/fuel ratio, or if they really know what there doing there know the voltage level given by the lambda sensors when the mixture is spot on, and just use a VOLT meter aka the way the rally boys chip the ECU.

 

I am going to try and get hold of an ex colleage who does the FORD FOCUS rally cars, and see if can map the 300ZX. The reason being is SE are new at this, and Superchips are crap. You can even by the same gear Peter uses from RaceLogic, go on a course with them and map your own chips.

 

I would not leave things as they are, as you will lose your engine.

 

Leigh.

 

 

WELL SAID !!!!! Smithy

Glen,

You are most likely to hear pinking when the engine is under heavy load, so 40 in a high gear with your foot down would be a good test and probably a good way of breaking something.

 

It could be as simple as that mixture gadget you've got, or the timing has slipped, or it was setup for high octane fuel. Right now, give it super unleaded, treat it gently and get someone to look at it - QUICKLY, before you start emulating Waarrens' piston mishap.

Just wondering - what about JWT chips? I know the US boys swear by these things, but are any of them applicable to our UK/Jap engines? I know emissions regs etc are different over the pond..

 

Anyone know?

Hmmm, pinky & perky have obviously come to town for a few days eh???

 

God I wish someone could re-create this exact sound using a synth. or something...does my head in trying to imagine what nuts and bolts in a baked bean can sound like whilst driving under load at 40 mph in fourth gear with the stereo at vol. setting 3 and two smallish kids in the back and the wife in the passenger seat going "what's that rattly noise dear?"...LMAO!

 

My Capitan Kirk does this, it's an Auto. but it makes this rattly noise at a certain point in the rev. range. Some people reckon it's an exhaust issue but have seen the car up on a ramp at Shit Fit and the exhaust is tight. I thought it could be the timing chain, maybe the tensioner on the way out? Is it that kind of sound though? Timing chain rattly type of noise? My Merc. has been doing this for ages now, have been meaning to get it investigated but not had time...which is a stupid attitude to take, coz if the timing chain goes West I'll be looking at another car needing an engine rebuild! GULP!

 

Tim

;-)

 

Az, JWT chip is considered to be the safest and best for our UK spec cars. Mines is considered to be an engine destroyer...ask Warren! Superchips...nahhhhh...SE chip, heard good things about them but I think they need individual setup like wot Mr. Hairsy had done e.g. Pete getting you to drive MAX POWER round country bends while he messes around on the CrapTop...we know a story about this, don't we Mr. P??? LOL!

 

Tim

;-)

 

Tim,

Give Captain Kirk the 30mph in top gear trick with your foot flat down (with the radio off). The noise is similar to a rapid tapping and it should be fairly obvious if it's happening. Failing that get someones old Sierra, screw up the timing, run it on shite fuel while going up Porlock Hill and you'll soon hear it.

JWT chips are fine for UK/JAP cars, I have checked with them to confirm that the chip has been set up to suite our Octane ratings.

 

The rattly noise you mention Timmy-Turbo sounds like pinking to me.

 

The best chip for anybodies car is one which has been specifically made for that engine, because no two engines are identical. Unfortuntaley the cost of doing this is expensive, and the most cost effective way is one which can be bought off the shelf like the JWT chip.

 

However if I manage to track down the guy who does the Rally cars he will make a chip for your individual engine but at a cost, which about 4 years ago would of been £400, dont know about todays rate.

 

Hes real good, use to be able to match throttle pedal to boost on Cossies. eg 50% throttle equalled 50% boost. This is how the rally cars are done to make them more drivable.

 

Leigh.

 

Tim - glad you said that about JWT, that was who I was gonna go for (when I get the car.. I'm not gonna start doign what you do and buying bits before I get it! Lol )..

 

I assume Fed spec is best for us (not Cal spec, since they have the tightest emissions regs)..

 

Az

I think he needs to spend some time over the road from work with Nice Guy Colin who only charges £25 per hour labour. What a laugh when he phoned me up to scare me...LOL!

 

Broke down on the M1 about a month ago, it was the V-pulley belt tensioner so Yellow Eric's flattied me car to my digs which is just up the road from work. This belt on a Merc. drives everything, power steering, A/C, crank etc. so if it goes West you lose the whole lot.

 

Luckily this mechanic guy is just down the road from work, so I limp the car into his place following day. He takes a look and then rings me up saying "my labour charges are £25 per hour you know?" expecting me to drop dead with shock! If only he knew, Land Rover dealer charge £48 for my Mrs. Range Rover(major service £780 so that should make Hairs feel better about his TreVoR!), Nissan £55 at Arriva in Peterborough and the best 'till last...Merc. main dealer back home a miserly £65 an hour!

 

So as you can imagine, well chuffed!

 

Tim

;-)

 

Leigh - isn't US fuel usually 89 or 92 RON? (92 for the 300ZX).. In which case they'd be super safe on our 96/98RON fuel..

 

Jap fuel is more like 100RON isn't it? Hence Mines being a bit of an engine destroyer..

 

At least that's how I understood it..

Mines rocks, everything else is KAK.

the actuall fuel rating varies from country to country,as i understand it, 97 octane here and 97 octane say in japan, would have many different components and therefore be different, i went to alot of trouble to find out about the mines ecus and so on, and the only engine killer, is normally the company that sets them up lol, cause they dont know what they are doing.

i personnaly wouldent go near anyone who hasent mapped one of these thingsa, properly, i mean why not just go with a company like JWT or mines, blitz and so on as they have done the development for these things.

 

By the way Mines ecu are purpose built replacement units, not upgrade chips like JWT. (I THINK LOL)

From what I understand the JWT chip will suite our normal unleaded fuel, which is 95 Octane.

 

Also there is talk of Super unleaded becomming unavailable, with the move to make cars greener. So anyone considering mods should look at this seriously, especially where Chips are concerned. You can check if you wish against all super saloons, such as the new M3, and M5 which are designed to run on normal unleaded, where as the E36 M3 was recommended to run on Super UL.

 

Leigh.

 

 

Ha haaa, Az, that's where you're wrong mate...for I do already own a ZX so one up on you straight away! LOL! Just waiting to get her back from de SE maaaannnn! Chill!

 

So while you will no doubt struggle to get anything for your Z after purchase(coz things do go wrong on 'em from time to time!) I will have a Monty head start on you and hopefully more money in the bank!

 

Tim

;-)

 

Mods accumulated so far:-

 

Techtom MDM-100

ASP Underdrive pulley with belts www.300zx.co.uk forum stickers...LMAO!

Nissan 300ZX Companions Guide(book)

Racelogic TC

Scroll Rage message board with remote control

Nicola from Max Power(wearing nought) rear view mirror air freshner

Crash Bandikoot cuddly toy for rear parcel shelf...now you're really jealous aren't yer?

 

CFOTP(Coming from over the pond - Phuong)

 

Brembo cast, Stillen drilled disc Kit which includes, 3 x Motul DOT-4 performance brake fluid, Goodridge Stainless brake lines, Axxis Metal Master performance pads(front and rear)...

 

Which leaves me with a few other items to get bolted on once she comes out...

 

BlitZ SUS Induction Kit

BlitZ Reallize Cat back system 4.5" tails

JWT ECU upgrade...which incidentally I'm already working on with Mr. P!

 

Oh and part of the engine rebuild, ported and polished heads...we're luvvin it, luvvin it, luvvin it! We like it like that!

 

So Az you can see, I iz way ahead of yer...big time! LMAO!

 

Tim

;-)