Hi guys,

 

Im getting my engine replaced and there are a few things that i need to confirm and check with some of u's!

 

1, My timing belt is being replaced, so do i also have to replace the tensioner with out disrupting it?

 

2, Im trying to clean my eng but i cant seem to get all the grease off the plenum successfully. Ive used 'hyper clean' i think? cleaning agent made for this specific job but unfortunately it doesnt work that good!! :( has ne1 got any suggestions to as wat i could use to get the best possible results?

 

3, there was something else but i 4got!:p

 

cheers

jaz

3. is there any tell tale signs of the age of a timing belt? Has anyone ever seen one where the Nissan writing is a light brown colour? Should the writing be white if new?

Jaz,

 

Firstly the tensioner is made up of two removable parts

 

1) The hydrolic push pin assembly

2) The back plate and pivot arm

 

In most cases the failure is with the pin seal, not the pivot arm. However UK dealer`s quote the whole assembly including a new jockey wheel and is a wallet crunching £275!

 

If however a known good unit can be found then swapping of the hydrolic push pin assembly is done by two bolts and does not disturb the base assembly.

 

If the whole assembly needs removing then the procedure to refit is straight quite forward anyway.

 

Although this will no doubt attract an amount of criticism here, I do not feel that the changing of water pumps, tensioner`s, pulley wheels etc is automatically merited when performing a timing belt swap.

 

Given that the service schedule was originally set out by Nissan with the view that all zeds would be serviced by themselves at certain intervals then the schedule is most likely to be weighted in their favour.Also and more importantly now that most zeds are not serviced by Nissan and more at specialist workshops the cost of a belt change has been drastically reduced, what was once a £1k job at Nissan is now less than half that at a specialist, so if 20k miles later unfortunately another part needed replacing it is no great deal to get it done and you still haved saved ££££,

Of course it goes without saying whilst the engine is dismantled that a thorough inspection is require and if in any doubt of parts then change them.

 

Often the case maybe when removing a belt though that the water pump has been previously replaced, so what purpose would it be to replace a perfectly workable pump? Ancillery belts are the same often having been changed already, spark plugs , air filters , fuel, filters etc, etc buying a service kit without inspecting first may seem to have cost savings but if you only actually need half of it then it is not.

 

Vijay

Belt condition is difficult to assess until removed, unless it is completely shot and that will be obvious when removing the right hand front belt cover for a check, however other signs may give clues, check the timing is on 15 deg btdc and note the position of the cas unit on the adjuster slots if very close to the right hand side then the belt is at worst stretched an although you can make adjustments for ignition timing the cam timing will be suffering and only a new belt will correct it.

 

 

Jeff TT

Bloooooooody hell!!!!

 

Sorry Jeff but I STRONGLY disagree with your post. Firstly, I have NEVER EVER heard of a stretched timing belt - if it was stretched it wouldn't fit the pulleys would it???

 

Secondly, on replacing the ancilliaries while you're down there. People may think you are being very kind to them saving them money but in the long run NO! ALL parts can be bought from the states including shipping and tax for around £300. If they are 'not that bothered' if they have to come back for another £300 pound bill from yourself when their water pump goes west 3 months later, then they are not gonna be bothered about splashing out the full amount for the full kit??? Please tell me you don't charge people labour for replacing ancilliaries you have to remove anyway when doing a cambelt change?

 

Sorry but considering you are supposed to be a professional in this game and after all the good stories I've heard, I am surprised to say the least.....

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

Mmm...........

 

Sorry Jeff but I STRONGLY disagree with your post. Firstly, I have NEVER EVER heard of a stretched timing belt - if it was stretched it wouldn't fit the pulleys would it???

 

If belts do not stetch then why is a continuously adjustable tensioner fitted??????????????????? if your theory is correct then once fitted and set it would not change!... you may want to rethink that one.

 

 

No you are right do not charge for refitting new belts, same as I do not charge for refitting the perfectly good existing ones.

 

Jeff TT

The theory behind the tensioner IS NOT that it can adjust to the belt stretching - it is so you can push on the belt with a certain pressure to set the belt tension correctly - you would not be able to do this with a non spring loaded device....

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

Mmm.....

 

The theory behind the tensioner IS NOT that it can adjust to the belt stretching - it is so you can push on the belt with a certain pressure to set the belt tension correctly - you would not be able to do this with a non spring loaded device....

 

 

No No No No No No you don`t get my point, if belts required no further adjustment AFTER fitting and tensioning a fixed device could of been used such as an assembly like on a conventional fan belt where the device is backed off ...belt fitted ...then tensioned and locked up. The timing belt tensioner is refered to as an adjuster also but not for just original fitting tension but as the belt is used and expands and contracts with heat /cold.

 

As the belt ages the fabric sections between teeth will stretch out albeit a very slight amount hence why it will still fit the cam sprockets etc, but, add all those little bits together and you now have a belt that is longer than it was originally.

 

Of recent years Ford and Vauxhall have fitted continiuosly adjustable spring loaded pulley wheels to the ancillery belts in order to increase the service intervals between belt adjustment

 

Different belts I know but the same principle.

 

 

 

Jeff TT

is the writing on the main timing belt always in white, or have you guys seen anything different?

 

Cheers

 

Vijay

Always in white vijay - however after a few revolutions of the engine that will change to a brownish colour....

 

Sorry Jeff but I still disagree - yes heat expansion is a reasonable arguement but not stretch. The amount of stretch which could actually occur would not be enough to change the timing any noticable amount.

 

Anyway that wasn't my main point in posting - it was in relation to replacing other parts whilst there. You seem to have avoided that bit...

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

Anyway that wasn't my main point in posting - it was in relation to replacing other parts whilst there. You seem to have avoided that bit...

 

No not at all, the problem with written word is unless both parties have a good knowledge of punctuation (I do not) inflection and meanings are sometimes misinterpreted.

 

I always explain to the customer the ins and outs of parts replacement and although I will often recommend a certain course of action I cannot force feed my views to the customer I take the time to explain it, however this does not mean though they only get half a job done , quite the contary.

 

If a pump has been recently changed why do it again? if ancillery belts have covered 5 k miles and are in top condition why change them/ if cam end seals are not leaking why change them? all of the above and more I regularly do change if required but if I am not able to honestly recommend replacement when they are not needed then I do not...I leave that to the main dealers

Jeff TT

 

Ps Also if belt length does not change and the belt was timed correctly then there would be no need to have an adjsutable cas unit.

 

Are you telling me you do not check the timing after fitting a belt? because if it has been largely adjusted before the belt swap to keep a correct 15 deg it will defo need adjusting with a new belt on.

Originally posted by andyduff

.. People may think you are being very kind to them saving them money but in the long run NO..

 

Jeff did my 60K service about 2 months ago. Before the work was done we discussed what ancilliaries would also be changed and we discussed the pros' and cons'.

 

I took the 'gamble' as to what to change and what not to change based upon:

 

1) Reading the forum posts to see what the common problems are,

2) My own experiance of owning cars for 25 years

3) Advice from Jeff

4) What Jeff found whilst the work was being done

5) Money limitations

 

I welcomed the discussion I had with Jeff - the alternative was the local Nissan dealer who has serviced the car twice - charged for air filers twice yet did not fit them - and offered no discussion / interaction.

 

Jeff treats cars and people as individuals tailoring what is done to the individuals circumstances - thats why I use him.

Please note I did not see Jeff's post before I posted - It looks like my post is a bit sycophantic, this is not the case, the posts crossed across the internet.

Always in white vijay - however after a few revolutions of the engine that will change to a brownish colour....

 

How many miles would you say it would take to go brown, would 2k be enough?

 

Cheers

 

Vijay

Easily Vijay.

 

Jeff, your initial post suggested you didn't recommend changing ancilliaries - if pro's and con's are discussed then furry muff. As you know there are far too many people offering poor advice wrt servicing.

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

Thanks Jeff, Andy and Vij.

 

The Timing Belt issue, i think is resolved but just i more thing.....cleaning the engine-its a bloody nightmare!:(

 

Any hints or tips guys??

 

cheers

jaz

As you know there are far too many people offering poor advice wrt servicing.

 

 

Yes agreed Andy!

 

 

(Jaz) cleaning engine

 

Spot treat the whole engine with a water based grime remover, bike stuff is ok from Halford etc. do not overly wet but wipe over with a damp sponge or cloth and allow to dry.

 

Where real tough bits are, use brake cleaner to blast it off but watch out for splashing as it stings like hell if goes in your eyes

( got the T shirt) a stiff brush will help.

 

Once to a clean level your reasonably happy with, spray very heavily the whole engine with a surface dashboard restorer any type will do, but must be a restorer not just a cockpit shine, the appearance will look gooey and slippy leave this for at least two hours, overnight if possible.

 

When your ready wipe the whole area with a sponge and keep turning the sponge, as the sponge gets sticky discard and use another one what your aiming at is a nice clean shine all over but not stickey or wet.

 

Now you should have a nice level of clean that can be built upon as time and patience allows, choose area`s one at a time, over the Summer where you want to increase the clean level and do the same over and over, you will get to a point where a wipe and a spray over will be enough as the surface modifyer will hold any new dirt for you to wipe off.

 

Hope that helps

 

Good Luck

 

Jeff TT

cheers Jeff