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Valve stem seals, blue smoke and all winter to fix it.

I've had an on going issue with my zed now for some time. The issue is that it burns oil, to start with it grey wafts of it at idle and plumes of grey/blue between 2 and 3k it was honestly like a smoke machine, terrible. After a compression test revealing an average of 160 psi across all cylinders and no oil being ingested pre throttle body it was decided it was most likely the rear turbo oil seals, inspection revealed that a pool of oil was building up in the rear compressor housing then being pushed out when the airflow was sufficient. So these were rebuilt using staggered gap rear seals etc, the Pcv system was all replaced at this time too, with non oem Pcv valves and new silicone hoses. This cured the issue almost, almost, but left me with some smoke on deleration, or after prolonged idle that initial rev, it will idle all day esp with the air con on without a single puff.

 

After some recent work on the oil filter tree I noticed oil coking from burnt oil on the CHRA of the drivers side tub, consistent with a cigarette like waft of smoke from that area now and again. I inspected the oil feed line as I was under the impression that oil from the core couldn't leak this way, certainly not without massive amounts of smoke. There was no evidence of the feed line leaking however and I was left thinking its obviously working its way out the rear seal again via that route, as well as through the exhaust.

 

A while passed and a few days back I had a look after a hot drive, sure enough oil was visible from the oil feed line, it obviously leaked under high pressure and burned off to the underside. Anyway I tightened this up and bobs your aunt that problem has now gone.

 

So back to reading about the fault and speaking to a friend we came to the conclusion that it may be the valve stem seals, these may be allowing the thinned out hot oil to be sucked into the combustion chamber and gasses to be leaked out into the heads. This would obviously create blue smoke and create resistance for the turbo's to drain into the sump properly. The car doesn't noticeably burn oil, I've done about 2.5k miles this summer and its no needed topping up since my spring oil and filter change(only use the car in the summer).

 

I have used the search function and google and found that seal replacement is possible with the engine in situee and head on, I just haven't got access or space to crane the block out right now and it came out when the turbos were done so service items were done very recently. Whilst some threads indicate that my issue sounds prime of valve stem seal failure, correct compression, low consumption, blue smoke on deceleration others say the seals rarely if ever fail on these cars and I would be wasting my time and money.

 

Could some one please discuss some sense with me and highlight anything I may have missed. It would be a terrible waste to pull a turbo or disassemble the top end for no good reason. I am looking to borrow a leak down tester of a friend to see what results that produces, id really like to have a summer without blue smoke trails, it doesn't happen all the time but you can guarantee it will happen when everyone is looking.

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Feel for you mate, ive just taken out my valve stem seals with the head off and i have to say its a real pain in the ass with the head off, let alone still in the car, you are not going to get the valve collets back in place without some sort of spring compressor. I know you can get the top mounting one, but it would depend on how much room there is to hold the valve and insert the collets.

 

Leak down test as you say before you make that decision.

  • Author

Apparently the leak down won't show the valve seals at fault, it will obviously help to show the health of the combustion chamber. A vac vague may help to show leaking seals by a bouncing needle on the gauge.

I've had an on going issue with my zed now for some time. The issue is that it burns oil, to start with it grey wafts of it at idle and plumes of grey/blue between 2 and 3k it was honestly like a smoke machine, terrible. After a compression test revealing an average of 160 psi across all cylinders and no oil being ingested pre throttle body it was decided it was most likely the rear turbo oil seals, inspection revealed that a pool of oil was building up in the rear compressor housing then being pushed out when the airflow was sufficient. So these were rebuilt using staggered gap rear seals etc, the Pcv system was all replaced at this time too, with non oem Pcv valves and new silicone hoses. This cured the issue almost, almost, but left me with some smoke on deleration, or after prolonged idle that initial rev, it will idle all day esp with the air con on without a single puff.

 

After some recent work on the oil filter tree I noticed oil coking from burnt oil on the CHRA of the drivers side tub, consistent with a cigarette like waft of smoke from that area now and again. I inspected the oil feed line as I was under the impression that oil from the core couldn't leak this way, certainly not without massive amounts of smoke. There was no evidence of the feed line leaking however and I was left thinking its obviously working its way out the rear seal again via that route, as well as through the exhaust.

 

A while passed and a few days back I had a look after a hot drive, sure enough oil was visible from the oil feed line, it obviously leaked under high pressure and burned off to the underside. Anyway I tightened this up and bobs your aunt that problem has now gone.

 

So back to reading about the fault and speaking to a friend we came to the conclusion that it may be the valve stem seals, these may be allowing the thinned out hot oil to be sucked into the combustion chamber and gasses to be leaked out into the heads. This would obviously create blue smoke and create resistance for the turbo's to drain into the sump properly. The car doesn't noticeably burn oil, I've done about 2.5k miles this summer and its no needed topping up since my spring oil and filter change(only use the car in the summer).

 

I have used the search function and google and found that seal replacement is possible with the engine in situee and head on, I just haven't got access or space to crane the block out right now and it came out when the turbos were done so service items were done very recently. Whilst some threads indicate that my issue sounds prime of valve stem seal failure, correct compression, low consumption, blue smoke on deceleration others say the seals rarely if ever fail on these cars and I would be wasting my time and money.

 

Could some one please discuss some sense with me and highlight anything I may have missed. It would be a terrible waste to pull a turbo or disassemble the top end for no good reason. I am looking to borrow a leak down tester of a friend to see what results that produces, id really like to have a summer without blue smoke trails, it doesn't happen all the time but you can guarantee it will happen when everyone is looking.

 

The bold bit is all that would matter to me Steve....

 

....If your compression is fine, the car runs well, you are not topping up the sump every 5 minutes and you are not nailing it round a track every weekend - then for the miles you are driving the Zed; just live with a little bit of smoke mate...:wink:

 

Don't spend the cash or waste your time unless you really have to!! I'd wait until it fails an MOT - or starts to really burn oil to the point you are topping it up frequently - or the engine starts to run like shite. You get the idea!

 

Richard:cool:

I have something to say............ It's better to burn out than to fade away..... :tt2:

when the tubs were done was there any hair line crakes in the turbo walls were the blades are. cas i do know they can have crakes in them, ive seen it when i got mine done and it was poinred out to me. just a thought

  • Author

Nope, I actually junked a core for that very reason when I was making a pair a while back. My gut reaction has been turbos for a while but but recent reading does suggest something else.

do a search on my name fastredz I have done the valve stem seals with the heads in situ I did a write up I think it wasn't too bad but had to make some custom tools, but after I did them I found it still smoked turned out to be rings

  • Author

Did you do any testing first or just assume it was the stem seals? Cheers for the reply.

  • Author
The bold bit is all that would matter to me Steve....

 

....If your compression is fine, the car runs well, you are not topping up the sump every 5 minutes and you are not nailing it round a track every weekend - then for the miles you are driving the Zed; just live with a little bit of smoke mate...:wink:

 

Don't spend the cash or waste your time unless you really have to!! I'd wait until it fails an MOT - or starts to really burn oil to the point you are topping it up frequently - or the engine starts to run like shite. You get the idea!

 

Richard:cool:

 

I hear what your saying but it's pretty embarrassing, I see the glee on people's faces as a lot of people love cars like these to be broken. I do plan to track the car and I need to put off spending lots of money with jimmer for a while yet now. I totted up the parts, includinging a new OEM timing belt was like £80, few hours of my time I might aswel just do them for peace if mind. I want to redo my valve covers and reroute the Pcv lines anyway so that's half the prep work done in any event.

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