Hi,

 

Most people know that I work as a FireFighter and if anybody wants to ask me questions about the strike, feel free.

 

The current state of play with a firefighter is that they clear £46 a day, most of my colleagues want to be able to afford to buy their own home and support their Families without relying on income support. I like many others have to depend upon other forms of income, (hence the reason why I can afford to run more than one car).

 

If anybody wants to, feel free to contribute any wind ups, insults and other distractions to the real issue, LOL, I've got some Hope!!

 

Mark

Originally posted by Nelson MainFella

What about accidents ?! Are you saying ALL fires are due to stupdidity ?:confused:

 

No, not all fires are due to stupidity, but if you've ever done a Health & Safety course on the issue you will learn that the VAST MAJORITY are caused by total F*CKWITS. Honestly you would not believe how dumb people can be:(

Two quick examples of stupidity that the Emergency Services have to put up with from offices (not even industrial sites!):-

 

1. Managing Director of IT company staying in posh serviced offices. Goes into smoking room, drops his cigar into bin, sets fire to room. Does he press fire alarm? NO. Does he report fire? NO. Does he go back to his own office, leaving the smoking room to blaze away because he remembered a business phone call he had to make? YUP! Excuse?......'oh, I thought someone else would report it'. Result? £2.5M of damage (thank God no loss of life)

 

2. Bloke parks his car in sub level 1 car park. Forgets to get something out of the back. Gets lift to sub level 2 car park by mistake. Does he get back in lift and go up one more level? NO. Does he take stairs up one level? NO. Does he wander around the basement for 20 mins, break into a maintenance room and nick a ladder, prop it against dividing wall and climb up it to get to the boot of his car, then pull out a huge box and fall off the ladder and fracture his skull? YES!!!!!:rolleyes:

 

...and you know what? The bloke sued my company for £600K because the ladder he nicked should have been padlocked!!!

 

These are not dumb as f*ck 'yoof' type people, but supposedly intelligent, educated, mature consultants and Directors of MAJOR companies ffs!:rolleyes:

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by markstevens

 

Of course, if all of the Firemen were imigants they would get £40k pa.

And they wouldnt even have to speak English.

I just wonder how bad this country will get before we do something about it and kick out all of the stupid politians.....

Revolution anyone?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

ROFLMAO !! Too right ![/b]

 

When you say "Too right", you're presumably referring to the political comment and not the blatant untruth, the blatant racism, or the spelling of the word 'immigrant' !

 

You've gone out of your way to state that you are not racist and your post could be mis-read.

 

Dave

I have a Degree and have worked for Shell for >7.5 years - I'm 33 and earn £19,300. Now tell me you're underpaid ! Can't bring up a family ? - bollox ! (caveat - London may be an exception). Don't you all have wives with salaries too ?

 

While FF have the unenviable task of seeing people die and with bad injuries, they have the reward of saving people and being highly respected (probably less so after striking). And aren't you all demon pool/card players ?? :D

 

No doubt there are many ppl paid lots for doing 'trivial' jobs or not working hard, but there are also many paid much worse than FF.

 

Because FF save lives does not lessen the importance of other jobs which help/improve/maintain society, giving people quality of life. If you IMPROVE many people's lives, you are doing something as important as saving lives but in a different way - one is extending the pleasure (hopefully) the other is making the pleasure greater.

 

One problem with criticising FF though, is that you are lumping together a load of individuals - all FF are not the same. This is a common problem with any criticism of groups tho.

 

Train drivers - most ppl would probably rather be a FF than a train driver (how boring).

 

I don't condone striking like kinace.

Originally posted by Hairsy

When you say "Too right", you're presumably referring to the political comment and not the blatant untruth, the blatant racism, or the spelling of the word 'immigrant' !

 

-----> I'm referring to the humour which points at our "soft", politically correct system, which often discriminates positively. Where is the blatant untruth or blatant racism ??!:confused:

 

 

 

You've gone out of your way to state that you are not racist and your post could be mis-read.

 

------> Isn't that gonna happen neway ? ;) :D

 

Dave

Nelson,

 

I am not going to challenge what you say, from previous threads I have seen the way your mind works and believe you and me it SCARES me!;)

 

 

Kinace I tried to answer all of your comments in an impartial way, but your argument has degraded to a spurious rant!

 

Skippy your role continues to be an Agent Provacateur, while I find your comments entertaining, they are not helping me to give information to people wanting to know about the dispute?

 

Mark

Originally posted by TopLess

Nelson,

 

I am not going to challenge what you say,

 

Mark

 

 

...............because you can't. You are after more money, plain and simple. But the lives you so care about are put to the side to that end. There is no denying that.

 

MONEY for LIVES. Period .

Nelson,

 

If you have a degree you should realise that life is not as clear cut as that, if you speed in your Z you are risking lives!

 

If the government cuts FF's appliances and FF's they are definately risking/lost lives, so why doesn't the Gov make it Illegal for us to strike! Because they would have to raise our pay to compensate for it!

 

I only wish life was as clear cut as the way you view it!

There is always a risk in driving a car and society is setup so that we have little choice and we all manage that risk - the risk is greater if you drive fast or badly. Agreed. But FF are there to manage and react to the risk of fires.

 

If you drive fast, however, but someone ELSE makes a mistake and there are casualties - who's fault is that ? ;) By driving fast, you are to some extent expecting other drivers/pedestrians to be more aware and therefore putting greater demands on their skills - granted.

 

But , I don't think its a fair comparison between an emergency service going on strike for more pay.

 

You do have a point tho' imho - However, that argument about driving is a separate issue. I wasn't passing comment on the ethics of your life choices - merely the ethics of going on strike and the tenuous ethics of that situation and the arguments which FF make about how ethical firemen are (ie. by saving lives and risking their own) and therefore are deserving of more money.

 

It's for you to justify your actions, not merely say "well you do the same/are as bad !!"

Don't we all justify out actions within the larger moral framwork of society, and cannot judge one action on its own in a moral vacuum!

 

I don't think FF's are saying we save people therefore we deserve more money, on its own, there are a whole range of reasons why we need/deserve more money!

Yes, this all getting a bit confusing, but we are having an interesting? debate.

 

There are 3 issues...

 

1) Are FF underpaid ?

 

2) Do they deserve a 40% increase ?

 

3) Are they right to strike ?

 

 

I think...

 

 

1) Debateable - I suspect not.

 

2) No. Maybe some but not 40%.

 

3) No. There will be an increased risk of death by fires, although increased vigilance may compensate for this to some extent. To argue that putting lives at risk for money is unethical CAN also be levelled at ppl who drive fast for excitement. So you were right to quote driving fast as an argument.

;) Whether the public will appreciate this though I doubt (separate issue again!), but most ppl don't drive fast/fast cars.

Nelson,

 

I'm not sure if you're trying to get a rise out of me but it's not going to happen.

 

Just for clarity though, this is what I was referring to :

 

"Of course, if all of the Firemen were imigants they would get £40k pa. And they wouldnt even have to speak English."

 

This statement is untrue and racist in my opinion and I find it offensive. If you disagree then so be it. No further discussion necessary - we can just disagree.

 

Dave

Q. If we had an incident like Sept 11th here in the UK and had such a loss of life like they had by losing so many firefighters would you have the crystals to tell the families of the dead firemen that they weren't worth 40K a year???

 

Some people (if that's what they are classed as in definition) really disgust me sometimes!

 

Craig you're right mate but on this board I find that there are way too many people with their heads shoved right up their own ar5es!!!

 

:mad:

If an incident happens in the next few days then you won't need to, as the Firemen will be on strike.

Alot of people lose their lives in terrorist attrocities and disasters, not just Firemen.Members of the public will often risk their lives to help others without a thought to their own safety.

This strike will either make or break the Firemen's union, but I reckon that either way, the Firemen will lose both morally and financially in the long term.

It remains to be seen if public support will dwindle over the course of the coming week...but public opinion is always very fickle!

I still think that outside of the London area, Firemen's pay is not that bad to live on for what is essentially a part time job, but a sensible pay increase would be deserved .:D

Originally posted by JAPCAR

If an incident happens in the next few days then you won't need to, as the Firemen will be on strike.

 

 

Japcar,

 

Firefighters have been leaving their picket line to go and help members of the public, whilst they have been on strike.

They have agreed that if a terrorist incident occurs, they will attend!

 

In the last strike in 1977, firefighters also left their picket lines to rescue members of the public, this wasn't reported because the Government put a 'D' notice on it!

 

 

 

I still think that outside of the London area, Firemen's pay is not that bad to live on for what is essentially a part time job, but a sensible pay increase would be deserved .:D

 

 

How does a 42 hour week qualify as a part time job, essentially five days on, three days off?

 

 

If Fire fighters are on great pay, why do they qualify for income support, when they have a family?

 

Maybe they could send their wives out to work, but how will they pay the nursery/nanny/au pair fees?

I think we should think about what a FF job involves. Think about how oftern you call the Fire-Brigade out when no fire is actually involved.

RTA, you are stuck in your car and need to be cut out, who gets called- Fire Brigade, NO FIRE

Your mates get the hand-cuffs out and stick you to the railings, who cuts you out, Fire Brigade, NO FIRE

Cat stuck up a tree, again Fire Brigade.

 

Those of you having a dig should realise that the FF role has changed so much over the years they don`t really justify geing called Fire Fighters as it`s only a percentage of their job. (% would be of interest Mark)

 

 

I am in full support of them and find it unreasonable for anyone to expect someone to take the risks they take for the same money as a Binman.

 

Bob

Originally posted by Bob

I think we should think about what a FF job involves. Think about how oftern you call the Fire-Brigade out when no fire is actually involved.

RTA, you are stuck in your car and need to be cut out, who gets called- Fire Brigade, NO FIRE

Your mates get the hand-cuffs out and stick you to the railings, who cuts you out, Fire Brigade, NO FIRE

Cat stuck up a tree, again Fire Brigade.

 

Those of you having a dig should realise that the FF role has changed so much over the years they don`t really justify geing called Fire Fighters as it`s only a percentage of their job. (% would be of interest Mark)

 

 

I am in full support of them and find it unreasonable for anyone to expect someone to take the risks they take for the same money as a Binman.

 

Bob

 

Too right! I concurr with the right honourable gentleman!

 

Strip this whole discussion back to basics, are they worth what they are demanding? YES!!!

 

John Prickcott says that any Govt in their right mind would not agree to what they are asking as the Nurses, Doctors, Police, Ambulance drivers, Paramedics etc. would follow in the footsteps. What does that signal to us? That if these people were paid what they were worth they wouldn't have to in the first place!

 

Seems to me that when the Govt tell the police or the armed forces to participate in allowing the fire engines to be taken from the fire stations the Police and the Armed Forces would not get involoved! So again, I say, what does that tell you?

 

Fcukin' Blair is a to55er!!!

 

Same thing happened over the fuel strikes, not really comparable with the Miners strikes now is it?

Sorry I was joking about Firemen being "part time":D

As I said, Firemen do deserve a pay rise, but simple economics mean that it can't be too high or the knock on effect will be higher inflation.You will then need a further increase to counter act this...an upwards spiral!

I don't however believe any of the "emergency services should strike over pay.

p.s. most wives have to work these days in order to fund our ever increasing consumer driven society;)

Originally posted by Timmy_Turbo

Too right! I concurr with the right honourable gentleman!

 

Strip this whole discussion back to basics, are they worth what they are demanding? YES!!!

 

--> Why ?! How can YOU KNOW how much someone deserves to be paid ? How much is any person worth ?

 

John Prickcott says that any Govt in their right mind would not agree to what they are asking as the Nurses, Doctors, Police, Ambulance drivers, Paramedics etc. would follow in the footsteps. What does that signal to us? That if these people were paid what they were worth they wouldn't have to in the first place!

 

----> so neone who strikes deserves more pay ?! I'm gonna get our staff to strike tomorrow then !

 

I wish some people on here would go on strike :D :D :D

Originally posted by Hairsy

I wish some people on here would go on strike :D :D :D

LMAO and the funny thing is id be prepared to pay if they did lmao

Originally posted by 300z

LMAO and the funny thing is id be prepared to pay if they did lmao

 

LMFAO!! anyone in particular waz????? :D

Hello again guys....particularly YOU Topless.

 

My points are based upon FACT.....I find most of your replies,well, shall we say 'unreliable', just to be kind.

 

I did mention in my earlier posts that you don't appear to know what is going on in your own 'service'..or lack of, as I write.

 

You mentioned that your members (the FBU ) are seeking to overturn the overtime ban. Ummm....don't think so.

Your union rep on Newsnight (a guy called MacGhee) said that the overtime ban (imposed in 1977...only been going TWENTY FIVE years!) was being challenged by the EMPLOYERS!

He also stated that 'it had created 6,000 jobs' - ho,hum...not overstaffed then are we? He also stated that any moves to overturn it would be strongly resisted.

 

In an earlier thread I also mentioned the night-time staffing levels...you replied that 'as far as you knew' there had never been any moves to reduce night-time staffing levels...hey! GUESS WHAT??...YOUR union rep. was accussing the employer's spokesman of trying to 'close down' fire stations at night-time..any moves to reduce night-time coverage would be , yep, you guessed it ...strongly resisted.

 

Well...either I'm psychic...or I have a better insight into what is happening in your 'work (or lack of at the moment) sector'.

 

If you are a betting man - put a LOAD on the FFS changing....but maybe not quite in the way you guys wanted..the old 'cosy' working practices will be on the way out.

 

Doesn't it worry you that the union were ready to settle at 16%?..I mean, here are you guys trying to justify 40% (which is SO unrealistic) and there they are ready to settle for that.

Ever get the feeling that you've been had over..hey, that Andy Gilchrist..WHADDA GUY!!!

 

 

I will reiterate one of my earlier points:-

 

Any 'work sector' (it sure as hell ain't SKILLED work...you can come back at me on that one, I am waiting) that has an abundance of people wanting to join it and virtually no-one leaving it....well, can't really be too BAD now can it?

 

I'm not going to go into the discussion about how much time you spend actually fire-fighting...or the fact that statiscally being a fisherman (and how much do they get paid?) is far more life-threatening. I personally respect (or, more accurately, respected) you guys. Yes, you do deserve more money....but not 40%....I'd have backed you probably up to 20%.

 

My whole issue here is:-

 

40%...NEVER going to happen....

so why go on strike over that and risk (hmmm..maybe 'condemn

to death' might be a bit strong..but, hey, tell it to their relatives) alienation from the public.

Yes..I've watched the news tonight, and I've seen the bit about the old woman giving her cheque to the Firefighter....I just thought that it was really sad that he took it...didn't she need the money more?

 

 

Look, Mark...I really do appreciate the job you guys do...but you have got this one SO wrong. I have nothing against you personally...I don't even know you...I just think that this was not a very good forum to air this topic in..and you haven't put forward any case of real substance.

 

This strike will very probably result in :-

 

A total revision (modernisation) of working practices...GOOD THING!!

The total emasculation of the FBU...actually not such a good thing.

The alienation of the public...due to....

The inevitable death of members of that community that you claim to serve...how BAD can a BAD THING be?

 

Look at yourself in the mirror and convince yourself (you'll NEVER convince me) that it has all been worth it...even if it is 40%..which we both know it won't be.

Sorry...I forgot this one..

 

OK, just to nail it........Mark....if you were working this week, which I know you're not, well...in one of the jobs anyhow (sorry, it just comes so easy this time of night) what would it entail?

 

If you were working at the FFS..what would your hours be?

 

There is a load of stuff being written about these various shift patterns...I'm just finding it difficult to understand quite what a working week is for you guys.

Originally posted by Nelson MainFella

 

Have you done it yet then Dave??? Strike I mean???