So if someone was goint to replace there turbos, and rather than a straght replacement, and apart from the stagerd oil step seals and the 360 thurst bearings. What would be a reliable tub that will give a little more . not talking about cranking up the boost to mega high numbers and melting engines, just a good solid tub thats an deff inprovment over the standered but must bolt on without complications, and yes the turbos only going to be producing some good figures with uprated breathing and cooling mods aswell. looking for a reliable 400 plus

whats good for a sound engine thats also not going to break the bank. thanks guys.

What's your budget, and also future power goals. You could get something that can max out your current setup, or go bigger and unlock as you do other mods.

 

Be wary of 'hybrid' turbo's as they often don't deliver any better, or are much laggier than needed for any performance improvement.

Dont know budget id say 6 to seven then about three hundred to fit to round of to fit. I think. Lets say the car is in standered trim apart from a chip.but cant or wont be using that much yet as cars ebc head unit is missing.will need to replace this along with larger much larger sidemounts to fill the holes of a twin z type front.but thats later.i will be after.more mods but thats much later. Just want a nice strong setup that can bolt straight on. And give a reliable quick spool without the larger laggy affect. And would rarther have some boost pressure there left before hitting the high red figures.dont wa t to go there.

are the current ones failing?

No my ones r absolutly fine and dandy. Not even done a thousand miles o then yet.and with the rear e d conversion there great. But the reason im asking is because its for another car.

That's a massive question, one that's as much about personal preference than anything else, what kind of peak power you want, what kind of delivery you want, how much you plan to spend.

The trouble is many of the bolt on applications are a bit naff now, most have to be imported and many will only marginally improve things on thier own. For example the next logical step up is a pair of gt525s a hybrid turbo using the larger version of the stock core on the stock housings. The end result is a very expensive version of the stock dinosaur technology we already have. You could go and spend thousands on a set of tubs that require a list as long a your arm if extras to make a significant amount more power than stock.

I'm fairly confident in what I've chosen now, but I have done lots and lots of reading and thinking.

What you done.

Presently research and save lol.

Noz has achieved over 400bhp on standard tubs mate, if you are only looking for that kind of power, I personally would just get a good proper remap with the minor mods required for 400bhp rather than the expense of engine out and new turbos.

Exactly what I'm now going to do. I have already bought the side mounts and lightened pulleys, I will also be adding twin separate cone filters (currently 1 x HKS) and then put a new 360 kit into some auto tubs fitted to AMS manifolds. Then a bit of Noz magic! and hopefully 400+.

 

No need for my 555 injectors or Rods and pistons after all that!

Exactly what I'm now going to do. I have already bought the side mounts and lightened pulleys, I will also be adding twin separate cone filters (currently 1 x HKS) and then put a new 360 kit into some auto tubs fitted to AMS manifolds. Then a bit of Noz magic! and hopefully 400+.

 

No need for my 555 injectors or Rods and pistons after all that!

 

 

I would suggest you fit the 555's ...

I would suggest you fit the 555's ...

 

But surely that would be overkill, I would of had the Tubs to max the potential, but decided budget and ultimately big power wasn't going to happen!

 

I do have the ECU with the 555's so I guess they would run right off the key?

If your car can get to 400bhp without the 555s and without running lean on stock injectors, then why bother changing them?

 

Over in the USA they seem to get much more power out of standard blocks/injectors than we think possible in the UK, slowly that is changing though.

But surely that would be overkill, I would of had the Tubs to max the potential, but decided budget and ultimately big power wasn't going to happen!

 

I do have the ECU with the 555's so I guess they would run right off the key?

 

Stock turbos with decent manifolds will out breath the injectors, Noel ramps up the fuel pressure on his car to compensate, but since you have the 555's then fit them so you have some fuelling to spare

To get the best out of the stock tubs and bolt ons many of the Americans are running 740ccc injectors. The only issue I see with go stock turbo crazy is the fact that sooner or later thecstock turbos will break, and then you have to fork out for new tubs anyway. Rebuilding them isn't all its cracked up to be either as they tend to have varying degrees of longevity after being rebuilt, it can be a real false economy rebuilding them tryst me.

I have a set of Auto tubs, thanks to Ash, which although little play would benefit a 360 upgrade as I am more interested in acceleration than top end.

 

However the current engine has standard Tubs, which supposedly were rebuilt (not sure how you tell) and they were still strong when the bottom end went! perhaps I should opt for these on a first rebuild and although I thought they were just for bigger power, perhaps I will add the 555's as Jaffa suggested.

To get the best out of the stock tubs and bolt ons many of the Americans are running 740ccc injectors. The only issue I see with go stock turbo crazy is the fact that sooner or later thecstock turbos will break, and then you have to fork out for new tubs anyway. Rebuilding them isn't all its cracked up to be either as they tend to have varying degrees of longevity after being rebuilt, it can be a real false economy rebuilding them tryst me.

 

740s are complete overkill for stock turbos & bolt-ons, just a waste of time but good for future-proofing your set up if they're keenly priced and you plan on fitting turbos with twice the flow capabilities.

 

 

I have a set of Auto tubs, thanks to Ash, which although little play would benefit a 360 upgrade as I am more interested in acceleration than top end.

 

However the current engine has standard Tubs, which supposedly were rebuilt (not sure how you tell) and they were still strong when the bottom end went! perhaps I should opt for these on a first rebuild and although I thought they were just for bigger power, perhaps I will add the 555's as Jaffa suggested.

 

If you've got them, you may as well fit them. To get the most out of stock turbos, you need to uprate everything:

 

Manifolds, turbo elbows, 2.5" exhaust, 2.5" intercooler piping (preferably custom & short as possible), FMIC (again, custom), short-ram split dual intake.

Once all this is complete, you will need to either increase the base fuel pressure or fit larger injectors. With the above set up, the turbos will hold 1.4 bar to 6800 RPM, giving you circa 450bhp and even higher torque. All this without even considering work on the cylinder head, plenum, port matching etc.

 

I'm a big fan of maximising the stock turbo set up, both mine and a customer's car made 480ish lb·ft and the response is spectacular, although my manifolds & elbows were only stock. But there is a lot to consider and it's not worth doing it by halves. Saying that, 99% of Zeds I map are still running the stock 2" intercooler pipework. Despite spending thousands on the latest turbo technology, just to achieve less torque than available from the tiny stock items and be slower in the real world. It's puzzling, and watching the boost dropping off at high RPM is what I expect to see every time I map a Zed :(

 

The VG is so strangled in its stock configuration, it's very ineffective fitting a larger turbo whilst retaining the stock pipework with no headwork. But that goes to show how amazing the VG is, making 300bhp as stock with all that tiny pipework :bow:

740s are complete overkill for stock turbos & bolt-ons, just a waste of time but good for future-proofing your set up if they're keenly priced and you plan on fitting turbos with twice the flow capabilities.

 

 

 

 

If you've got them, you may as well fit them. To get the most out of stock turbos, you need to uprate everything:

 

Manifolds, turbo elbows, 2.5" exhaust, 2.5" intercooler piping (preferably custom & short as possible), FMIC (again, custom), short-ram split dual intake.

Once all this is complete, you will need to either increase the base fuel pressure or fit larger injectors. With the above set up, the turbos will hold 1.4 bar to 6800 RPM, giving you circa 450bhp and even higher torque. All this without even considering work on the cylinder head, plenum, port matching etc.

 

I'm a big fan of maximising the stock turbo set up, both mine and a customer's car made 480ish lb·ft and the response is spectacular, although my manifolds & elbows were only stock. But there is a lot to consider and it's not worth doing it by halves. Saying that, 99% of Zeds I map are still running the stock 2" intercooler pipework. Despite spending thousands on the latest turbo technology, just to achieve less torque than available from the tiny stock items and be slower in the real world. It's puzzling, and watching the boost dropping off at high RPM is what I expect to see every time I map a Zed :(

 

The VG is so strangled in its stock configuration, it's very ineffective fitting a larger turbo whilst retaining the stock pipework with no headwork. But that goes to show how amazing the VG is, making 300bhp as stock with all that tiny pipework :bow:

 

Noel on my orange car , right done the exhaust. tick, got a really thick fmic from toyo sports it huge and thick and got 2.5 pipe work, tick.but hang on you said custom, what needs to be custom here. and can you get away with huge bigger than big side mounts as i also like the twin z front bumper.oh also you say Manifolds, turbo elbows, 2.5". ok say i went with them then whilst choosing a turbo? what would you surgest noel. and where to get like a package deal. wasnt you or didnt i here somewere recently that your looking into doing somthing like this, a compleate turbo deal with the nessasarry 2.5 pipework. if so any ideas yet. cheers

I realise 740s are crazy but that's what they seem to go with.

So Noz, I was going to do port work on the head and if need be the turbo outlet to match my mongoose setup , I have bought larger smics, although disappointed to find the inner diameter is only 2" albeit twice the size of the standard smics, I have the AMS manifolds and 555 injectors with a mines ECU. Pair this up with Auto or manual tubs and taking into account uprating the fuel pump, is this the basis on achieving your sort of figures?....if so I will be a very happy boy!!

 

By the way I'm not trying to Hijack Spins thread, just adding some alternative possibilities.

Noel on my orange car , right done the exhaust. tick, got a really thick fmic from toyo sports it huge and thick and got 2.5 pipe work, tick.but hang on you said custom, what needs to be custom here. and can you get away with huge bigger than big side mounts as i also like the twin z front bumper.oh also you say Manifolds, turbo elbows, 2.5". ok say i went with them then whilst choosing a turbo? what would you surgest noel. and where to get like a package deal. wasnt you or didnt i here somewere recently that your looking into doing somthing like this, a compleate turbo deal with the nessasarry 2.5 pipework. if so any ideas yet. cheers

 

When I look at any car with a view to getting the most out of it, I try and make things as simple as possible. The Zed engine bay layout is anything but. Intake pipework (cold side, pre turbo) needs to be as short & straight as possible. So the filters should be on the turbo compressor inlet whilst running a different MAF configuration. Intercooler pipework needs to be as short as possible and 2.5" minimum ID. So therefore the intercooler(s) wants to be between the rad and the engine. There is only one company that I'm aware of right now that caters for items like this and that is TDM. Hence, you either use one company or you customise available parts and do it that way.

 

My take on side mount intercoolers from a performance point-of-view: Standard equipment swapped out for a large FMIC. That's simply how it is with every other car of a similar vintage. IMO, that is how it should be with the Zed. A car with GT3071Rs worked very well with massive side mounts, Intake temps (IATs) stayed around 40°C at 1.4 bar. But they've since been changed for a FMIC set up with pipework kept as short as possible.

 

It all depends on what you want from the car. The above approach is a no-compromise take on performance. The VG works very well at many different power levels.

 

[rant]

I'm seeing a trend at the moment of people spending vast amounts of money (IMO) on turbos and missing out on performance due to not having the correct supporting modifications. Jaffa's comment about hybrids earlier was spot-on, and the same applies to the current GTX range of turbo kits available Stateside. A GTX2860 turbo is designed to run 3 bar of boost. That's 45psi.... This is the whole point of buying billet wheel turbochargers. How on earth will they produce even 1.2 bar of boost at the top end with 15 ft of 2" pipework?? What is the point of buying a turbo designed for 40 psi and only being able to run 20 psi before the boost drops off? Terrible waste of time & money, and it only ends in disappointment. Even worse is the fact people are buying these GTX turbo kits with 14 psi actuators that in reality open at 12 psi. You need to run a minimum of 1.5 bar on a GTX2860R for it to be efficient :wack:

 

The GTX range specified for the Zed is a very odd 'upgrade' unless you're going to run 2+ bar. In order to run 2+ bar on a regular basis with a GTX28xx and maintain that boost pressure to the redline, it's worthwhile considering the following:

 

2.5" IC pipework minimum, MAF relocation, 20 psi actuators, large front mount, larger throttle bodies, 2.5"-3" turbo elbows into full 3" system, camshaft upgrade, solid tappets, uprated titanium valve springs & retainers, ported & polished cylinder head, port enlarging & matching, gas-flowed plenum & matched to the larger TBs, 850cc injectors or better still a top feed conversion, uprated fuel pump or better still again a lifter pump & swirl pot set up, 1/2" fuel lines, adjustable FPR, possibly water/meth injection to cool the charge, larger radiator, maybe metal head gaskets (stock ones do a great job), larger baffled sump, large oil cooler, forged pistons, forged rods, heavy duty bearings, ARP headstuds, rod bolts, main bolts, knife-edged crank, everything that moves should be lightened & weight matched then the whole lot balanced dynamically (a fully blue-printed bottom end).

 

A GTX turbo set up just isn't suitable for the majority of a Zed owner's requirements IMO. 'Spool' is not a valid argument: The non-billet, ball-bearing GT range is perfectly capable of producing good top end power and great response. IMO, up until 450bhp, the stock units (preferably rebuilt with 360° bearings & uprated seals) at 1.5 bar seem to be the best solution. Until people spec their engines to handle 35psi of boost, GTX turbos seem to be completely pointless on these engines. It'd be good to get someone else's point of view on this, because I'm slightly baffled :laugh:

 

[/rant]

So Noz, I was going to do port work on the head and if need be the turbo outlet to match my mongoose setup , I have bought larger smics, although disappointed to find the inner diameter is only 2" albeit twice the size of the standard smics, I have the AMS manifolds and 555 injectors with a mines ECU. Pair this up with Auto or manual tubs and taking into account uprating the fuel pump, is this the basis on achieving your sort of figures?....if so I will be a very happy boy!!

 

By the way I'm not trying to Hijack Spins thread, just adding some alternative possibilities.

 

If you want my honest opinion, definitely get rid of the side mounts if they are a 2" restriction. Yes, they will reduce intake temps more than stock, but they're a bottleneck you know about before you even begin going down this route.

 

Do as much flow improvement work as you can.

 

Use manual turbos with the A/R 0.63 turbine housings. However, tomfromthenorth had a brilliant result with auto turbos some time ago with a dual intake. His car was a pleasure to drive.

 

No need to uprate the fuel pump, no harm in renewing it.

 

2.5" IC pipework including intercooler inlets & outlets. Be prepared to run 1.4 bar of boost to achieve your power goal. This will stress the turbos more than running 1 bar.

 

Mine's ECU? You're asking the wrong guy about that I'm afraid :laugh: If you must run a 22 yr old map designed for Japanese high octane fuel then V Power only and invest in some knock monitoring equipment.

 

Jimmer has a nice pic of an engine powered by a Mine's ECU :D

Cheers Noel, looks like I will have to bail out of the SMICS or find a way to enlarge the pipework, as for the injectors, they are Venom 555's with a Socketed ECU setup for them...says Devlin! Wanted to keep SMICS as I am looking to keep a stockish look to the car!

If you want my honest opinion, definitely get rid of the side mounts if they are a 2" restriction. Yes, they will reduce intake temps more than stock, but they're a bottleneck you know about before you even begin going down this route.

 

Do as much flow improvement work as you can.

 

Use manual turbos with the A/R 0.63 turbine housings. However, tomfromthenorth had a brilliant result with auto turbos some time ago with a dual intake. His car was a pleasure to drive.

 

No need to uprate the fuel pump, no harm in renewing it.

 

2.5" IC pipework including intercooler inlets & outlets. Be prepared to run 1.4 bar of boost to achieve your power goal. This will stress the turbos more than running 1 bar.

 

Mine's ECU? You're asking the wrong guy about that I'm afraid :laugh: If you must run a 22 yr old map designed for Japanese high octane fuel then V Power only and invest in some knock monitoring equipment.

 

Jimmer has a nice pic of an engine powered by a Mine's ECU :D

 

Right so stock tubs to be taken of and replaced with A/R 0.63 TURBINE HOUSING. I dont know but A/R 0.63 The larger compresor with lager hossings, so it holds more boost for loonger, and then just 360 thust bearing and stagered steped oil seal,? so bassically rebiuld my standered tubs to this spec. and run i bar boost to keep in the safe zone.Please advice were best to purchase of best recomended to do this work on tubs. then plum in another large fmic with at least 2.5 inch intake and out takes. then 2.5 inch straght through decated exhaust. a recomended ebc and a if you like upartedrs fuel pump, whist you there throw in some 550 injectors,then over to yours for a map of sorts then i should be seing a reliable comfortable 400 plus on one bar, and with out going silly should last. oh nearly forgot, and if im lucky enough to find a nice free flow manifold aswell. pref 2.5 inch. Is that right.? thanks Noel, free free to PM me if needed with reference to work.

Dude - pay more attention :)

 

Stock manual turbo's are 0.63 A/R already. They are bigger than auto tubs, hence Noel commenting on them

 

Decent FMIC or SMIC with 2.5" pipes. I would say most FMIC on the market are rubbish and have the flow going the wrong way so be careful

 

2.5" exhaust minimum. 3" downpipes if you can afford, otherwise 2.5" again there

 

More fuelling, 555 inj - stock fuel pump is fine

 

you'll need to run more than 1bar to get over 400

 

Manifold is not 2.5", just get the MSP/AMS cast ones

Out of interest has anyone found a good source of stock turbo cores? I know you can purchase them state side, but what about over here?