As per the title, I'm in court tomorrow on what I see as a bit of a trumped up driving charge.

 

The history is this:

 

Last November I got a letter asking me to confirm I was the owner of my car as I had been caught texting and driving in September and do I admit that I did it? The only evidence they have is an undercover policeman said he was stood at the opposite side of the road as I came to a stop at the junction and he could see into my car and I was texting.

 

I denied it.

 

July this year I get a letter saying I have to appear in court in October this year.

 

I go with phone records showing that I didnt recieve or send any texts or phonecalls 15 minutes either side of the alleged offence. Was told this doesnt matter as I could have been checking anything on my phone. I again plead not guilty and am told any chance of leniency is over and I must attend trial on !4th November.

 

So a full 14 months after the alleged offence and with no evidence against me apart from what a policeman reckons he saw from 20 yards away what do you reckon my chances are and what can I say?

Are you being represented? I have seen cases where the judge has thrown things out for being stupid, sounds like this fits that bill....

 

All I can say is good luck.

No I'm not to be honest I didnt think it would get this far. I'm shocked that just his word against mine can come to this for a pretty much nothing offence.

if your going to deny it make sure that there is NO WAY you did it and try and put this across without getting to a big discussion. Simple, short answers is the way as these people make a living trying to trip people up, For example i got clobered with a parking fine and when id tryed to pay it the person on the phone had to go and check some details and i got cut off it went to court and when asked why i hadnt payed i said " the person id spoken to said they were going upstairs and i got cut off" to which the lawyer said "all i can say is the office is on one floor so why would anyone be going upstairs" that was it i was screwed and got lumbered with a £300 fine because id made a simple mistake

 

In all honesty for all the aggro its caused you may have been better just taking the fine as it always seems to be the little guys that get screwed with things like this

your word against his m8, its more than 6 mths they should have sent to the pps at the time of the alleged incident. they shud have actioned within the 1st 14 days, as you said deny take records with you. how does he no that you were even checking? if you were driving and unless he was driving beside you for a period of time and distance to acknowledge that an offensive was committed, then they shud send it packing out the door. stick to your guns white lie the incident. and ask at 20yards away what was is eye sight like was it damp weather rain etc? was his eyes calibrated when was his last eye yest?

Hearsay, no hard evidence, so as suggested say little and deny it, they have to prove beyond all reasonable doubt and judging by what you have said, i am really surprised its gone this far.

 

Statement :undercover policeman said he was stood at the opposite side of the road as I came to a stop at the junction and he could see into my car and I was texting.

 

The highlighted is what got you to court and you can prove that you hadnt texted, they will try anything to change the wording to make the charge fit and save face.

 

What i will say though, is the cps wont prosecute any case if they feel they dont have a 99.9% chance of winning, so think very carefully that you have covered all angles.

I'm assuming the Police Officer wrote up and submitted a comprehensive report at the time with all of your details (age, build, clothing, distinguishing features, elevation, face, gait, hair and sex) and all of your vehicles details (not just registration number but make, model, colour, identifying marks etc) and I'm assuming that you have been given access to that report, you would at least know where the Police Officer was standing at the time of the alleged offence.

I assume that the Police Officer doesn't require prescription glasses and if so, I assume that he was wearing them at the time (despite being undercover, unless it was a sunnt day and he was wearing sunglasses)

*all of this is relevent because it should all be included in the report

What could you have been doing at the time that would explain why the Police Officer mistakingly thought that you were looking at your mobile phone (note: rolling a cigarette would not be a good explaination) but maybe putting your windscreen shammy away after diligently wiping the windscreen and side window due to an un-expected build up of condensation etc

Be polite and respectful emphasising that you don't believe that the Police Officer is lying but that he is mistaken and has mis-interpreted what he actually saw. This in conjunction with phone bill evidence (not really relevent or submissable but a little smoke and mirrors can't hurt your cause)

 

Look everyone in the eye when you are talking to them and don't fidget

 

Good luck anyway mate

Yeah had the full report stating all the details.

 

Basically going to say what you said japslapper, not that hes a liar but he was mistaken.

 

They have already said there is no photographic evidence, all they have is a police officer stood 20 yards away looking for distraction burglars and just happened to see into my car, very hard considering the road is slightly elevated above the pavement so would be even harder to spot.

 

I've got to turn up in my work uniform as well as I cant afford the day off! Lets hope the judge likes postmen! Haha

I wish I had just taken it now to be fair lol.

You will be fine m8 good luck..

I thought we lived in a society that you were innocent until proven guilty?

 

As they have no proof other than a man saw you from 20 yards away. Now, although they asked you if you were the owner of the vehicle thats fine but they cant prove it was you driving?

 

Also, if the vehicle was stopped at the time of the "offence" you wernt driving... so how can they say you were driving and texting?

 

Really pisses me of this petty pointless "crime" they are bothering to waste your time and the CPS, I pray to god they throw it out and you should press charges against the police for wasting your time, requesting that the cost of the court hearing is taken directly from the police officers wage.

Well thats my worry now that this is getting costly and going to cost me a fair bit.

 

I thought they had to have some kind of evidence or any policeman could just go around saying they saw anything.

 

Surely they can't ask me to tell them what I was doing at the time as it was 14 months ago and who can remember what they were doing at a certain time so long ago?

Stuff like this annoys me, good luck.

Turn up at court and ask for hard evidence. If they cannot provide it, you cannot be prosecuted. Under a court of law, a policeman has no powers to sway the judge, and if deemed to be lying, then he can lose his privilege to be a police officer.

 

Perhaps you can ask him is he conforming to the oath he took as a police officer - which is basically to tell the truth and give a fair view and things like that.

and all so speak to a Legal aid duty solicitor they can represent you there

and all so speak to a Legal aid duty solicitor they can represent you there

 

+1

I would definatly get the free legal aid to represent you as they talk in law terms and can ask difficult questions worded differently to try n trip you up,

i thought we lived in a society that you were innocent until proven guilty?

.

 

really :huh:

I was Knocked clean out Years ago from behing by a copper tw@tting me with a truncheon.

Chucked into the back of a Van and Locked up.

Went to court and Copper said The defendant was acting menacingly and when approached shouted

"lets do the coppers" at which point I was arrested.

 

I was actually shopping with my girlfriend at the time and was trying to make sure she got out of the way

as around 40 newcastle fans ran throught the centre of Sheffield.

 

Guess who they fookin believed.

 

:mad2:

really :huh:

I was Knocked clean out Years ago from behing by a copper tw@tting me with a truncheon.

Chucked into the back of a Van and Locked up.

Went to court and Copper said The defendant was acting menacingly and when approached shouted

"lets do the coppers" at which point I was arrested.

 

I was actually shopping with my girlfriend at the time and was trying to make sure she got out of the way

as around 40 newcastle fans ran throught the centre of Sheffield.

 

Guess who they fookin believed.

 

:mad2:

 

 

 

 

Could've been worse I suppose

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-19979184

 

 

by all accounts the copper ^^^^ has now changed his statement......he's now adament that the mad man with the sword (aka. blind man with white stick) is actually a fully trained Jedi Knight and was witnessed by said copper, to be waving his lightsabre around in public in 'a most threatening manner'. Due to the fact that he believes the defendant to be a Jedi Knight and that it is common knowledge that Jedi Knights posess mind controlling powers, the judge presiding has accepted that it is most likely that all present in the courtroom could be under the control of some form of Jedi mind trick and therefore the Police Officers account of events are the more plausible. Obi Wan Whitestick has since been detained at her majesty's pleasure indefinately

 

Like I said last night mate, good luck but do take some lube just in case.....may the force be with you!

Could've been worse I suppose

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-19979184

 

 

by all accounts the copper ^^^^ has now changed his statement......he's now adament that the mad man with the sword (aka. blind man with white stick) is actually a fully trained Jedi Knight and was witnessed by said copper, to be waving his lightsabre around in public in 'a most threatening manner'. Due to the fact that he believes the defendant to be a Jedi Knight and that it is common knowledge that Jedi Knights posess mind controlling powers, the judge presiding has accepted that it is most likely that all present in the courtroom could be under the control of some form of Jedi mind trick and therefore the Police Officers account of events are the more plausible. Obi Wan Whitestick has since been detained at her majesty's pleasure indefinately

 

Like I said last night mate, good luck but do take some lube just in case.....may the force be with you!

 

:laugh::laugh::thumbup1:

I couldn't remember was I was doing six minutes ago let alone 6 months !!

If you denie it you will have to prove why you are so sure you were not texting on that date as days become months and so on!

If you own upto it it will be 3-6 points and a fine at the magistrates choice but there again you are owning upto it and it may be less hash

you will not get free legal aid if you earn above thresholds

Soo how did it go m8 ?

As above you word against his. He has to have photographic evidence to back it up if he was off duty. Keep it simple "NO I WASNT TEXTING OR HOLDING MY PHONE" if they cannot prove it with evidence it will be thrown out of court.

Hi all just got back!

 

Well to misquote a famous song, "I fought the law and the law............................................LOST!"

 

The policman was adamant I had done it but different to his previous statement said I was driving towards him as he was on the pavement at 20-30mph and he could see I only had my right hand on the steering wheel which meant my left hand mustve been occupied. As i drove past him he said he got a clear 5-6 look inside the car and I was holding a phone in my left hand and he could see my left thumb moving across the screen. When I had the chance to question him I asked if he was stood on the cycle path of the pavement, he said he wasn't. So I asked how far away from my car he was and he said no more than six foot. I then informed the court that between the road and the pavenment on this street there is two foot of grass next to the kerb, then a two lane cycle path, then another two foot of grass and then finally a pedestrian walkway meanign he must've been a good fifteen feet away at least.

 

Whenever the prosecution asked him a question he also kept asking if he could refer to his notebook to determine certain facts as he couldn't remember specifics 14 months ago which I siezed as being my point exactly from the start!

 

I was then questioned and accepted I was driving the car at that time and at that place. When asked what I was holding if it was not phone I said if I was holding something it could have been anything. My 3 year old daughter sits in the front next to me and she bring toys and books in the car with her so it could have been something slipped off her seat I quickly picked up. I was then asked if i was calling the policeman a liar, I said no I just think he was mistaken.

 

When the magistrates asked if I had anything to add before they leave to discuss the outcome I said for the last eight years I have been driving upto 1000 miles a week for Royal Mail and if this was the sort of thing I often did I would have been caught long ago and in 13 years of driving I don't have a single conviction as driving is my livlihood and I wouldn't risk it for a simple text.

 

Result was not guilty of driving whilst in use of a mobile phone, not guilty of not being in control of a vehicle and not guilty of driving with undue care and attention.

 

I wasn't expecting it at all but its good to see that sometimes you can fight your corner and win :)

 

Thanks everyone for your kind words :)

Hi all just got back!

 

Well to misquote a famous song, "I fought the law and the law............................................LOST!"

 

The policman was adamant I had done it but different to his previous statement said I was driving towards him as he was on the pavement at 20-30mph and he could see I only had my right hand on the steering wheel which meant my left hand mustve been occupied. As i drove past him he said he got a clear 5-6 look inside the car and I was holding a phone in my left hand and he could see my left thumb moving across the screen. When I had the chance to question him I asked if he was stood on the cycle path of the pavement, he said he wasn't. So I asked how far away from my car he was and he said no more than six foot. I then informed the court that between the road and the pavenment on this street there is two foot of grass next to the kerb, then a two lane cycle path, then another two foot of grass and then finally a pedestrian walkway meanign he must've been a good fifteen feet away at least.

 

Whenever the prosecution asked him a question he also kept asking if he could refer to his notebook to determine certain facts as he couldn't remember specifics 14 months ago which I siezed as being my point exactly from the start!

 

I was then questioned and accepted I was driving the car at that time and at that place. When asked what I was holding if it was not phone I said if I was holding something it could have been anything. My 3 year old daughter sits in the front next to me and she bring toys and books in the car with her so it could have been something slipped off her seat I quickly picked up. I was then asked if i was calling the policeman a liar, I said no I just think he was mistaken.

 

When the magistrates asked if I had anything to add before they leave to discuss the outcome I said for the last eight years I have been driving upto 1000 miles a week for Royal Mail and if this was the sort of thing I often did I would have been caught long ago and in 13 years of driving I don't have a single conviction as driving is my livlihood and I wouldn't risk it for a simple text.

 

Result was not guilty of driving whilst in use of a mobile phone, not guilty of not being in control of a vehicle and not guilty of driving with undue care and attention.

 

I wasn't expecting it at all but its good to see that sometimes you can fight your corner and win :)

 

Thanks everyone for your kind words :)

 

ACE!!!

This gets my vote as "Best Post of 2012"

Well done.

Brill great result quality, well done..:clap: :punk::thumbup: