Hi all,

 

With a number of high powered Zeds on the forum im wondering if you can give me some sort of idea in what im going to expect trying to get the car off the line quickly say at a 0.60 sprint or pulling out a junction quickly. Also how they handle when laying down the power though the gears?

 

Im wanting to replace the hatch with a Carbon one hopefully! Im just thinking what extra problems it could give me being so much lighter at the rear as the hatch is so heavy and is practicly the whole rear of the car. Im guessing cornering will be an issue too.

 

I think ive bought every uprated mod possible to gain the extra traction but not sure once taking the weight away if they would be much use?

 

What do you think?

 

Im hoping to achieve around 550-600@ the fly.

 

Thanks Dan

It's all about tyres and setup, we corner weight everything we build from race XR2s to full ex works touring cars and rally cars, you also set the car up for the job it's doing, straight line sprints and tracks and hill climbs.

 

Adjustable shocks give you so many options but it's not a case of bolting them on and setting them the same, corner weights are so important!!!

 

Setup is the answer and if you are using rose joints its all about setup.

 

Thanks for your info..a mate of mine works for a motorsport company and had already said about setting it up for me when finished.

Did you get your diff fitted ? Gibster

 

Fitted the gearbox and diff last week..got there in the end

Do what I did and stick in a Racelogic TC, it's good enough for koeniseggggggggggggggggggggggggeeeeee. You can then adjust the amount of traction you want.

 

AEM does have this feature but ive also got the RLC fitted and plan to use it when needed.

U lost an auto zed ?? how,d you do that :lol:

 

Black ice and lack of experience, so call me a fag if want but I'd much rather have it :sailor:

Adjustable susspension has platforms you can wind up and down for ride heights which are also massively important, once you set the ride heights you then can make small adjustments to set how much pressure each tyre puts on the ground balancing the setup.

 

That's what the scales are for.

 

So would you be using this for 99% of zeds here which are road going or are talking about a track set up for the 1% that are at that stage and do serious tracking.

 

For the best road and track combination on aftermarket parts getting the thing set up properly can be done by a number of garages and also have the default settings that you can get off here

Edited January 11, 201213 yr by Gonzo12c

It's all about tyres and setup, we corner weight everything we build from race XR2s to full ex works touring cars and rally cars, you also set the car up for the job it's doing, straight line sprints and tracks and hill climbs.

 

Adjustable shocks give you so many options but it's not a case of bolting them on and setting them the same, corner weights are so important!!!

 

Setup is the answer and if you are using rose joints its all about setup.

 

Who do you work for daztomo? How much does a corner weighting setup cost with you?

 

I've got a question for you on tyres as you seem in the know. If two identical cars have different width tyres, say a 275 and 295 on the rears. Does the one with the wider tyres actually have more grip for acceleration and cornering? Both weigh the same so there is less pressure per square inch of ground contact so is the same amount of friction generated?

 

Also, if there is the same weight over both sets of tyres, wouldn't that mean that the bigger tyre is less squashed as there is a bigger surface area so both tyres put about the same of rubber onto the road?

 

Are we better off spending money on better compounds rather than trying to squeeze a couple extra cm of rubber under the arches?

j

 

The reason I'm asking people what its like because I've yet to drive mine. And thought it would be a idea to ask people with high bhp of there experiences with that sort of power before making the rear lighter and possible worse to drive. Lots of people have more knowledge and experience than me on here so thought I'd take advantage before I make an expensive mistake!

 

If you make the rear end a lot lighter then traction will become more of an issue, but as mentioned, you will be able to eliminate it to a certain extent by adjusting your setup. Reducing weight will also mean that you can carry more speed into turns as the tyres are not having to work as hard carrying the extra weight, but as CarMad mentioned, the balance will probably be adversely affected. Generally though, less weight has to be a good thing. By relocating your battery and other ancilliaries to the boot, you could offset the change in weight distribution.

 

As for traction control, if you're at all hesitant about it, then I would definitely fit it. My approach was to provoke my car in a relatively safe environment so I could get a handle on how quick breakaway was and how much correction was required. I found that in relatively standard form (and with Hicas still operational) was that the car was exceptionally easy to control at the limit and pretty forgiving. You do run out of lock quite quickly though, so a quick tidy up is crucial if you want to avoid spinning the car. I'm a purist, so would never fit TC, but I understand why lesser men feel the need. :lol: I have been caught out twice by my car though, when I really wasn't expecting it - both times I caught it, but only after massive brown-trouser moments. I would recommend you er on the side of caution to start with, better safe than sorry.

 

Black ice and lack of experience, so call me a fag if want but I'd much rather have it :sailor:

 

Traction control will not help you on ice my friend. Once you've lost traction, they don't really do a great deal! On a greasy road, it almost certainly would help, but I think you should still rely more on experience and know when to back off first.

Black ice and lack of experience, so call me a fag if want but I'd much rather have it :sailor:

 

I had a standard auto TT lwb in pooring rain stopped at a roundabout, pulled on to roundabout I'd say at 15-20 mph went to go round and the rear end slid straight out!! I'm guessing greasy road surface, baffles me to this day!

If you make the rear end a lot lighter then traction will become more of an issue, but as mentioned, you will be able to eliminate it to a certain extent by adjusting your setup. Reducing weight will also mean that you can carry more speed into turns as the tyres are not having to work as hard carrying the extra weight, but as CarMad mentioned, the balance will probably be adversely affected. Generally though, less weight has to be a good thing. By relocating your battery and other ancilliaries to the boot, you could offset the change in weight distribution.

 

As for traction control, if you're at all hesitant about it, then I would definitely fit it. My approach was to provoke my car in a relatively safe environment so I could get a handle on how quick breakaway was and how much correction was required. I found that in relatively standard form (and with Hicas still operational) was that the car was exceptionally easy to control at the limit and pretty forgiving. You do run out of lock quite quickly though, so a quick tidy up is crucial if you want to avoid spinning the car. I'm a purist, so would never fit TC, but I understand why lesser men feel the need. :lol: I have been caught out twice by my car though, when I really wasn't expecting it - both times I caught it, but only after massive brown-trouser moments. I would recommend you er on the side of caution to start with, better safe than sorry.

 

 

 

Traction control will not help you on ice my friend. Once you've lost traction, they don't really do a great deal! On a greasy road, it almost certainly would help, but I think you should still rely more on experience and know when to back off first.

 

Funny you say that I started relocating the battery to the boot last night. Im going to mount it beside the passenger rear wheel. Practically in the same position as the abs unit adjacent.

 

Cheers Dan

If you make the rear end a lot lighter then traction will become more of an issue, but as mentioned, you will be able to eliminate it to a certain extent by adjusting your setup. Reducing weight will also mean that you can carry more speed into turns as the tyres are not having to work as hard carrying the extra weight, but as CarMad mentioned, the balance will probably be adversely affected. Generally though, less weight has to be a good thing. By relocating your battery and other ancilliaries to the boot, you could offset the change in weight distribution.

 

As for traction control, if you're at all hesitant about it, then I would definitely fit it. My approach was to provoke my car in a relatively safe environment so I could get a handle on how quick breakaway was and how much correction was required. I found that in relatively standard form (and with Hicas still operational) was that the car was exceptionally easy to control at the limit and pretty forgiving. You do run out of lock quite quickly though, so a quick tidy up is crucial if you want to avoid spinning the car. I'm a purist, so would never fit TC, but I understand why lesser men feel the need. :lol: I have been caught out twice by my car though, when I really wasn't expecting it - both times I caught it, but only after massive brown-trouser moments. I would recommend you er on the side of caution to start with, better safe than sorry.

 

 

 

Traction control will not help you on ice my friend. Once you've lost traction, they don't really do a great deal! On a greasy road, it almost certainly would help, but I think you should still rely more on experience and know when to back off first.

 

Yeah, I know it wouldn't have helped me in that situation, I'd only had the zed two months. I will happily admit that I'm not the stig so TC gives me piece of mind and makes my zed more predictable. Especially driving in the wet. I'm not really the type of person that likes to take every corner sideways and my zed will never be on a track. So for me it makes sense.

Yeah, I know it wouldn't have helped me in that situation, I'd only had the zed two months. I will happily admit that I'm not the stig so TC gives me piece of mind and makes my zed more predictable. Especially driving in the wet. I'm not really the type of person that likes to take every corner sideways and my zed will never be on a track. So for me it makes sense.

 

Fair enough, it's horses for courses I guess - certainly no shame in having it fitted either. Knowing your limits and trying to protect yourself and others is very admirable. I'm pretty comfortable with how the car handles in poor conditions, but as I said, i've been caught out unawares. How much a TC system would've helped in those instances is debatable, but it certainly wouldn't have done any harm. As long as people don't expect it to be totally infallible (which I'm sure they don't), then it's another layer of safety.

So would you be using this for 99% of zeds here which are road going or are talking about a track set up for the 1% that are at that stage and do serious tracking.

 

For the best road and track combination on aftermarket parts getting the thing set up properly can be done by a number of garages and also have the default settings that you can get off here

 

Sorry for the late reply my daughter has been in hospital for tests.

 

There is a massive difference between a road setup and a track setup.

 

No such thing as a default setup from a web page, no car chassis is the same ever, also rose joints make a huge difference as they don’t have any play in them at all.

 

To corner weight a car is fine for road use and you wouldn’t go to the lengths you would on a competition car to move mass to get the perfect setup.

Who do you work for daztomo? How much does a corner weighting setup cost with you?

 

I've got a question for you on tyres as you seem in the know. If two identical cars have different width tyres, say a 275 and 295 on the rears. Does the one with the wider tyres actually have more grip for acceleration and cornering? Both weigh the same so there is less pressure per square inch of ground contact so is the same amount of friction generated?

 

Also, if there is the same weight over both sets of tyres, wouldn't that mean that the bigger tyre is less squashed as there is a bigger surface area so both tyres put about the same of rubber onto the road?

 

Are we better off spending money on better compounds rather than trying to squeeze a couple extra cm of rubber under the arches?

 

I contract to race, rally and sprint, hill climb teams, I have been lucky enough to work on ex works race and rally cars.

 

As for tyres, that’s the million dollar question, it’s down to everything!!!

 

The cars geometry

 

Weight

 

Caster and camber

 

Tow in and out

 

Trye compounds

 

Temperatures air and track

 

Dry or wet

 

Application, race, rally and sprint

 

Air or a gas to inflate the trye.

 

All of these have to be considered for a road car I would always go for an intermediate setup due to the fact of doing 7000 miles a year and not having a team of mechanics for when it rains to change the setup.

 

You can over tyre a car as well, in other words the cars doesn’t use its tyres enough to get temperature in to them.

 

You also have mechanical grip caused by suspension setup and this can hammer tyres, for instance when it rains we remove and soften the anti-roll bars and back the dampers off to make the tyres work and get some temperature in them.

 

As for the cost of corner weighting it's something that’s not cheap as we also do a full setup of camber and tracking front and back by stringing the car to make sure it runs perfectly straight.

 

Better the tyre compound the better grip, the sorter the life of the tyre as well!!!!

Have a read here.......

 

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/understanding-corner-weights/

 

Ive read it mate. but i still dont understand how you move the weight about??

 

Where do you get the extra weight to balance the car??? so if you car weights say 20kg more on one side how do you match the other side?

Have you seen adjustable suspension strut, it has platforms you can move up and down???

 

To move the weight about the car you move the platform the spring sits on to change the pressure that tyre or contact patch puts on the ground.

 

Moving the platform changes the length of the strut, it’s like standing on one foot, all the pressure is on the foot in contact with the floor, put the other foot on the ground and then tryes and find the perfect balance between the two feet for the best standing position.

 

Same thing but with each corner of the car.

 

Any clearer?

Moving the platform changes the length of the strut, it’s like standing on one foot, all the pressure is on the foot in contact with the floor, put the other foot on the ground and then try and find the perfect balance between the two feet for the best standing position.

 

It should have read try!! Sorry

I have fully adjustable bc coilovers. so as well as the height you can adjust the spring. Is that what you adjust? by making one spring softer than the other but maintain the same ride height??

No you actually adjust the ride height on each individual strut meaning that if you were to take them off the car they would all be different but on the car with the weight distribution of the car not being perfect the car would sit flat and the weight would be as evenly set up between each tyre across the front and back and as evenly possible from left to right on the front and back.

are right so in away you back everthing off and let it find its own level with a hand from the software.

 

A bit like parking on a hill and putting the hanbrake on :)

are right so in away you back everthing off and let it find its own level with a hand from the software.

 

A bit like parking on a hill and putting the hanbrake on :)

 

Think of it this way:

 

if you adjust the NSF strut down then more weight will be transferred to this strut & the corner weight will increase for this corner.

 

try this:

 

stand up straight with your feet slightly apart - now bend your left leg to effectively shorten it - more weight is now on your left side than your right.

 

Thats how it works! Corner weighting for dummy's!! :lol::lol:

No.

 

You set a basic ride height this is the distance the car sits from the ground and then you put the car on the scales and then set the corner weights by adjusting the individual suspension strut length\height to get an evenly balanced car.

Just found these vids on youtube.

 

Looks nice and simple to do with the scales :)

 

Part 1

 

 

Part2

 

 

So much easyer to see it than some one telling you lol!!!

Thats the one!!!! PHEW!!!

 

Daz.:clap::thumbup:

We got there in the end. Its easy when you know how. good old internet :lol:

 

Now i need to find some scales :lol:

Cost you about £1500 for a second hand set or a cheap set and about £4000 for a good set.