Who will win lol

 

Anyone keeping an eye on the news??

 

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16121698

 

Take a look

I feel I need to add something here which may not be coming across. I DO think Nurses should be paid more, I DO think Doctors should be paid more, I DON'T think their pensions should be taken away either.

 

BUT, I WILL NOT, under any circumstances, support public servants, who knew what they were getting into when they took their jobs, striking, causing chaos across the entire country, making my life more difficult, because they've changed their minds and don't like what they do any more. Tough shit, go do something else, yes the NHS would collapse, maybe then the government would run the country like a business and pay people appropriate to skill and effort, instead of paying one nurse who puts ALL her heart and soul into the job the same as one who couldn't give a ****.

 

The simple fact is, if you want money from being a nurse or a doctor, work in private healthcare, if you're good enough, you'll be accepted and employed, if you do it because you love it, shut the **** up. I know that sounds harsh, but if I did what I really loved, I'd get paid **** all for it, I couldn't then complain about that fact, because I made the choice.

 

Instead, I do something I'm good at, even though some times it bores me to tears, costs me sleep, makes me a fat git because I never get up from my desk, makes me unpopular because I'm ratty and snappy half the time, through lack of sleep and constantly looking at numbers and writing on a screen for 16 hours a day, but the fact is, it pays for me to have private healthcare, drive a Z, live in a nice house, have a decent mobile phone, TV, computer, console systems, etc. It pays for me to live and support my family.

So basically fit the F**k in or F**k the F**k off then? :tt2:

I'll have one :yes:

 

get ya ass down here then lol

Bit of a crap analogy tho, given that if Farmville or Facebook went tits up tomorrow, yes some people would find it annoying, but it wouldn't be life threatening. You're not responsible for ensuring people don't die (and I can promise you that if nurses and doctors kill people at work, they don't keep their jobs and are struck off the professional register so they cannot practice again) and you could lose your job any day anyway Alex coz that is also the nature of the beast. Its a bit of a moot point really. I'm not suggesting I could do your job and I could do yours and nor would we want to, but as a nurse I can't make someone better than well, I can't stop people from dying when they come to the end of their natural life, and to be honest, how much harder could I really work? Would you want nurses to treat more patients and measure output? The nature of care work isn't about volume of patients treated or productivity, its about the quality of care given, you're not comparing like with like

 

I'm just going to be really blunt here.

 

Simple and to the point

 

1. People whinge and moan when you want a pay rise, because you are taxpayer funded.

 

2. Nurses do not get the pay they deserve

 

3. Nurses will NEVER get the pay they deserve. due to my earlier reasoning of thier is no money to be made by big wig pen pushers. as it is government funded.

 

4. Life is a bitch and then you die.

get ya ass down here then lol

 

You can deliver now ya got the zed sorted :tt2:

Bit of a crap analogy tho, given that if Farmville or Facebook went tits up tomorrow, yes some people would find it annoying, but it wouldn't be life threatening. You're not responsible for ensuring people don't die (and I can promise you that if nurses and doctors kill people at work, they don't keep their jobs and are struck off the professional register so they cannot practice again) and you could lose your job any day anyway Alex coz that is also the nature of the beast. Its a bit of a moot point really. I'm not suggesting I could do your job and I could do yours and nor would we want to, but as a nurse I can't make someone better than well, I can't stop people from dying when they come to the end of their natural life, and to be honest, how much harder could I really work? Would you want nurses to treat more patients and measure output? The nature of care work isn't about volume of patients treated or productivity, its about the quality of care given, you're not comparing like with like

 

But that's EXACTLY the point and you're missing it, because you're taking it too personally. You're working in the public sector, so you will get paid, what the government says you will get paid. You will do, what the government says you will do. That's that. It always has been and it always will be.

 

As for the figures, there are targets within the NHS for people who died that shouldn't have, there are records etc. And if someone makes an accidental mistake, they are NOT immediately struck off, if they were, half the doctors and nurses I've encountered in the last year would not still be employed, because each and every one of them ****ed up, including the ones who caused Roses step dad to die of pneumonia back in December when if he'd been treated properly, he would have lived. I'm not speculating there either, it's cut and dried!

 

As for saving lives, I'm a software and hardware engineer. Who do you think makes all the stuff you guys use to keep patient records? Who do you think makes the little machines that go beep beep when people are dying? People like me Jane! I used farmville as an example, because most everyone knows it exists, but I do a lot more than that, a hell of a lot more.

get ya ass down here then lol

 

Are you saying you want him to bring his arse down for a cup of tea and a steamer?

Cup of tea anyone?

 

please mate, 2 sugars, not too strong :yawn:

You can deliver now ya got the zed sorted :tt2:

 

i take it when i say "i need to test it more" people just ignore it :lol:

 

(love the way we are having a complete different conversation to whats going on around us, like being down the pub and no one gives a shit that you just said the barmaids got nice boobs)

theres not a great deal more to say really, the only real change that will effect us all is a cival war, lets face it. with the uk's language barriers. it wouldnt end well lol

i take it when i say "i need to test it more" people just ignore it :lol:

 

(love the way we are having a complete different conversation to whats going on around us, like being down the pub and no one gives a shit that you just said the barmaids got nice boobs)

 

Hang on, which bar maid, where?

But that's EXACTLY the point and you're missing it, because you're taking it too personally. You're working in the public sector, so you will get paid, what the government says you will get paid. You will do, what the government says you will do. That's that. It always has been and it always will be.

 

As for the figures, there are targets within the NHS for people who died that shouldn't have, there are records etc. And if someone makes an accidental mistake, they are NOT immediately struck off, if they were, half the doctors and nurses I've encountered in the last year would not still be employed, because each and every one of them ****ed up, including the ones who caused Roses step dad to die of pneumonia back in December when if he'd been treated properly, he would have lived. I'm not speculating there either, it's cut and dried!

 

As for saving lives, I'm a software and hardware engineer. Who do you think makes all the stuff you guys use to keep patient records? Who do you think makes the little machines that go beep beep when people are dying? People like me Jane! I used farmville as an example, because most everyone knows it exists, but I do a lot more than that, a hell of a lot more.

You're taking it personally too Alex! And rightly so, and I hope that investigations subsequent to this tragedy ensure that if neglect and malpractice occurred, that appropriate action is taken. Far be it from me to say the NHS isn't without its huge issues, my god it really is the most bureaucratic, huge and unwieldy organisation and communication within it is shocking at times :thumbdown:

My point is that personally I WILL NOT accept that my skills are a nurse should have a lower monetary value than yours as a software engineer, for as long as I take breath on this planet. I'm not naive enough to think me as a lone person can make a change, but I have always been and always will be an active union member (I joined the Royal College of Nursing the day I started my nursing). And I hope that as part of this union, I can help to at least start to change the views or the majority so that perhaps in future, as a specialist nurse, I might actually get a salary that does entitle me to a decent quality of life - I don't think it'd any less hard earned or deserved than yours

You're taking it personally too Alex! And rightly so, and I hope that investigations subsequent to this tragedy ensure that if neglect and malpractice occurred, that appropriate action is taken. Far be it from me to say the NHS isn't without its huge issues, my god it really is the most bureaucratic, huge and unwieldy organisation and communication within it is shocking at times :thumbdown:

My point is that personally I WILL NOT accept that my skills are a nurse should have a lower monetary value than yours as a software engineer, for as long as I take breath on this planet. I'm not naive enough to think me as a lone person can make a change, but I have always been and always will be an active union member (I joined the Royal College of Nursing the day I started my nursing). And I hope that as part of this union, I can help to at least start to change the views or the majority so that perhaps in future, as a specialist nurse, I might actually get a salary that does entitle me to a decent quality of life - I don't think it'd any less hard earned or deserved than yours

 

I'm honestly not taking it personally, other than the public servant thing annoying the crap out of me I suppose, but you've sill missed the point. It's not that you're worth less, it's that you're in a sector of industry that dictates what you get paid, whether you're good or not, it's THAT simple. Throwing a strop (Which is all a strike is) is NOT going to change that.

 

What happened the last time the unions took a grip of this country and brought it to a standstill? If you don't know, go and find out, then come back to the discussion, because I tell you what, Unions damn near ruined this country, put it on it's knees, made it what it is today (Nowhere near as good as it was before the unions) and then someone had to change things, so the government came down with an iron fist, we ended up in a depression, let alone a recession and millions were out of work, the population is near double what it was back then, and the unions are just repeating history.

I'm honestly not taking it personally, other than the public servant thing annoying the crap out of me I suppose, but you've sill missed the point. It's not that you're worth less, it's that you're in a sector of industry that dictates what you get paid, whether you're good or not, it's THAT simple. Throwing a strop (Which is all a strike is) is NOT going to change that.

 

What happened the last time the unions took a grip of this country and brought it to a standstill? If you don't know, go and find out, then come back to the discussion, because I tell you what, Unions damn near ruined this country, put it on it's knees, made it what it is today (Nowhere near as good as it was before the unions) and then someone had to change things, so the government came down with an iron fist, we ended up in a depression, let alone a recession and millions were out of work, the population is near double what it was back then, and the unions are just repeating history.

 

Alex, I was ALIVE when the unions took grip of the country, not to mention my degree in UK Government and Politics which kinda covered it but hey...

 

I disagree with you re the strike, aka throwing a strop, but suspect we could talk round and round without ever seeing eye to eye on this one.

i havent read all through this but im with clarkson too .

i dont know if its already been mentioned but 47% of each and everyones council tax goes on public sector pensions . now mine this year was £1000 . without the pension contribution £530 . now im a biulder , my pension is totally down to me . no public sector worker puts a single penny into my pension fund . the economy is down the sh*tter so why do these people think they should be amune to the countrywide cuts necessary to drag this country back from the brink .

NHS are underpaid I will agree with that.

 

Everyone else in the public sector are overpaid, given too much flexi-time that it goes straight to their heads while we in the private sector plump the feathered pillow up for them while the unions dictate to this government like they have done to Labour for the past 14 years.

 

Those who did strike should be ashamed of yourselves, you are lucky you have a job. I went to the pub after work yesterday and it was FULL of drunk public sector c***s. Disgraceful.

 

Oh and by the way you are striking for money that has already run out.

It's not a confrontation it's a discussion, i thought you pom's were tough. :gun_bandana:

 

Dead right mate...

 

But only over a nice cup of tea.. Lol..

Holy cow I go away for 3 hours for a curry and come back to this lol pandoras box or what, sorry people

Holy cow I go away for 3 hours for a curry and come back to this lol pandoras box or what, sorry people

 

What curry did you have? :drool:

Holy cow I go away for 3 hours for a curry and come back to this lol pandoras box or what, sorry people

 

mmmmmmm curry

i really fancy some pasta rite now, not long had a chinese tho

Hell what a great debate this has turned out to be!

 

Regarding Clarkson, let's be honest he wasn't seriously suggesting we shoot all the striking public sector workers. It has been taken out of context by an over-sensitive liberal elite media and a few dullards with no sense of humour. Let's not forget the "lorry drivers murder prostitutes" jibes a few years back etc etc. It was an(other) overly exaggerated statement for comic effect and to demonstrate (albeit to the extreme) his own personal thoughts on the subject.

 

All it should take is an apology for any offence caused - calls for his sacking are just as stupid as the comment itself.

 

As for my views on the strike..... I personally have no support for it whatsoever.

 

Research from the Institute of Fiscal Studies has shown that for yet another year running, the average pay gap between private and public sector workers has widened again. In favour of (gasp) public sector workers. Back in the old days, civil servants accepted lower pay in return for job stability and a gold plated pension. Nowadays, civil servants generally have higher pay than private sector employees and still have their gilt edged pensions; albeit the job security is not necessarily as certain as it once was.

 

The private sector has had to rein in its expenditure over recent years. And let's not forget how good old Gordon Brown screwed over those of us who bothered to pay into our own pension funds and destroyed the tax breaks that contributed to our own funds actually being able to give us an income in retirement. So now the current government has to balance the books following years of fiscal neglect by the last administration - who failed to put money aside during the good years and squandered it all on a bloated public service (among other things). All it asks is that the public sector cuts its cloth in accordance with the country's means.

 

Remember it's the private sector that funds the public sector through taxes - and we all know that business is not making the money it once did; tax yields are lower as profits fall; so cut-backs are essential - and the country's debts need repaying. The public sector must adapt too and any reasonable person should see that. One cannot expect the already squeezed private sector worker to pay more taxes (and have less money to fund their own retirement) in order to finance the hefty pensions that civil servants are currently expecting to enjoy....

 

As for pay of certain public sector workers, yes many nurses are underpaid. But many doctors earn in excess of £100k p/a - sure they deserve it for all the study/responsibility etc they hold - but they aren't doing badly....

 

....ditto teachers. I know of many teachers on over £40k p/a - enjoying 14 weeks holiday and a working day of 9-4. And before anyone mentions out of school hours working etc - my father is a retired teacher (a head of department in fact) so I know exactly how hard he worked..... And he now enjoys a pension of around £20-25k p/a.

 

Looking at the people striking yesterday, it was admirable that those who were genuinely at the bottom of the pile still went to work - the nurses etc - whereas teachers and many other of the higher paid public sector workers went "all out!" In the case of the latter, I'm sorry to say, I believe it is just greed and "poor me, my gold plated pension might turn a bit silvery." That and the unions winding them up to take industrial action.

 

Richard:turned:

Edited December 1, 201114 yr by RichardS

Alex, I was ALIVE when the unions took grip of the country, not to mention my degree in UK Government and Politics which kinda covered it but hey...

 

I disagree with you re the strike, aka throwing a strop, but suspect we could talk round and round without ever seeing eye to eye on this one.

 

How much more clear can we be.

 

GOVERNMENT..... PAID.....EMPLOYMENT.

 

TAX... PAYER.... FUNDED

 

COSTS... MINIMAL...

 

You will not get a pay rise if you do it'll make no difference within a year as expenditure goes up... if you care about people and thats what you want to do great, don't get me wrong i appreciate the healthcare service, especially when i got knocked off my bike on the motorway and got ploughed into the back of a stopped van at 60mph... they scraped me off and patched me up and here i am.

 

Yes i do agree you are underpaid, yes i do agree you should make more, but it simply will not happen to any significant degree, is an extra grand a year or something really going to make much difference? no it isn't.

 

Life is shit, figured that out long ago, and i would have topped myself long ago if i didn't live for the good times... because they are rare but they are what sticks.

 

The end.

Thing is Janus, I couldn't do that, BUT, could you do 3 days in a 3 degrees centigrade datacenter, with no seat and wearing nothing but a shirt and trousers (No jackets allowed) and fix a running server, that has lost all communication with the outside world, without any reference to help you remember what to do and talk to the server in various different programming languages to get it back online? I doubt it.

 

The thing is, you knew you were getting into shit wages and the chance the government could screw you over whenever they felt like it, just as I knew I'd be walking into the freezing cold datacenter and might have to spend 3 - 5 days in there to fix critical stuff.

 

Anyone play farmville? Well I'm the guy that makes sure your virtual chickens keep clucking. It's a lot harder than you lot think and I'm pretty pissed off that you lot take me for granted, so tomorrow, I'm going to speak to all my colleagues that keep things like Google, Facebook and the major websites of the world running, and then I'm going to persuade them that we don't get paid enough and people don't appreciate us enough, so we should strike! Then see how you all feel, when your virtual cluckers are gasping for digital air and begging for digital seed, you won't like it!!!! I'm telling you!

 

Simple fact is, if I did do that, I and all my colleagues, would get fired. Not within a few days either, immediately! The SECOND we said we were going to do something like that, bye then, we'll hire that bunch of engineers over there who sent their CV in every week for the last year and replace you all! Muhahahaha!

 

If I want better pay, I have to work harder, I have to make things BETTER, not worse. If I strike, I'm fired, plus unhireable, because who wants to hire someone who throws a strop when he doesn't get more money just because he wants it? I'm not saying my job is harder, it's different. So is the industry we're in. It's a horrible analogy, but if a Nurse or a doctor does something wrong accidentally and that hurts or kills someone, they feel guilty, they may be punished somehow and investigations may ensue, but they'll likely keep their job, if I make a mistake and your virtual chickens die, I get fired and would then find it REALLY hard to find another job afterwards, let alone still have an intact pension.

 

I agree with this 100%, sounds like we may be in the same business.. :-) over the last 10 years I worked on various projects for police and ambulance services, health network etc and my colleagues are now working on the spine project, ensuring hospitals and other services can communicate with each other. pass data after heart exams etc... communicate with the emergency services en route to hospital etc What would happen if we walked out? who would make sure could still make phone calls, use the internet, send emails etc..? you dont make the timescales you are out and at one point I left home on Monday morning at 6.00am and got home late Friday and did that foe several months.. The hours took its toll so I changed jobs.. simples..

We are all going to die one day. I think we forget that. You, yes YOU, are about to have 24 hours of choices. All these choices are yours and only yours.

Feel free to try and tell all kind of things but you don't have to do anything.

Don't worry about the future of this debate. the real things you should worry about are probably things that have never crossed your mind. You could type a reply to this, or others.. or you could sing...a song..one you like.

Sometimes you are ahead. Sometimes you are behind. Sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue. this debate is only happennning because a journalist is good at being in the puplic eye & it pays his bills. He, like us are arising to the chance to give an opinion.

Leave the debate before it makes you hardened. Read the debate to stop from being soft. If you read the lastest to find out what your opinion is you balance out the people who troll the internet all day. Don't feel bad if you dont care. Don't feel bad because you do care.

Your life is just chance. So is everybody elses.

Fanatasize if you like but dont expect anyone else to support you. You never know the way the wind may blow.

We are all going to die one day. I think we forget that. You, yes YOU, are about to have 24 hours of choices. All these choices are yours and only yours.

Feel free to try and tell all kind of things but you don't have to do anything.

Don't worry about the future of this debate. the real things you should worry about are probably things that have never crossed your mind. You could type a reply to this, or others.. or you could sing...a song..one you like.

Sometimes you are ahead. Sometimes you are behind. Sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue. this debate is only happennning because a journalist is good at being in the puplic eye & it pays his bills. He, like us are arising to the chance to give an opinion.

Leave the debate before it makes you hardened. Read the debate to stop from being soft. If you read the lastest to find out what your opinion is you balance out the people who troll the internet all day. Don't feel bad if you dont care. Don't feel bad because you do care.

Your life is just chance. So is everybody elses.

Fanatasize if you like but dont expect anyone else to support you. You never know the way the wind may blow.

 

Baz Luhrmann, is that you?