Oilman

To some extent you are right but John is an R & D Chemist and an expert in his field, he doesn't sell oils, he merely analyses and formulates good ones! He's forgotten more than I know. Cheers Simon

Topless, I would still go with Silkolene's tech dept's advice, use PRO S 10w-50. For the diff oil, look about 4 posts up from here, I was told for twin turbo's use 75w-90 fully syn. Can highly recommend Silkolene Syn 5, Ester fully synthetic. Cheers Simon

I still stick with 10w-50 and I've spoken to Silkolene Technical about it since. I even spoke to John Rowland about the Castrol 10w-60 as I am concerned about the use of this oil in the 300ZX. I've sent him a sample of RS 10w-60 to analyse and compare against the Silkolene PRO S 10w-50 so will hopefully have something to post in the next week. This was Johns response to the Castrol 10w-60 technical data sheet and my fears about using it in your cars. Quote: Simon, Don’t worry about it! First, there is something odd about the Castrol Data Sheet. They claim a ‘CCS’ by which I think they mean a ‘Cold Crank Viscosity’ of 4200cP at -35C. this means, if true, that it passes 0W. 10W just requires less than 7000cP at -25C. Is this a misprint? Anyway, with a VI of 170 it is unlikely that the RS will even pass 10W; I’d like to try it on our test apparatus. In any case, even hot-running engines do not need SAE 60 oil these days. (by ‘hot’ I mean 120-130C). remember, SAE 60 is heavier than most SAE 90 gear oils. If an oil is too thick, it de-aerates slowly, leading to cavitation in the oil pump, or the bearings being fed slugs of air along with the oil. Pro-S 10W/50 would be ideal for 300ZX engines. ( a shear-stable xW/50 that stays at 50 is better than an xW/60 that doesn’t!) JR Unquote: I'll get back to you as soon as I have something! Cheers Simon

Just posted this in response to a question on another car forum that I advise. Thought it may make good reading here! Redline. It may be best that all Redline fans close their ears or look away at this point, you may not like what you read! Some basics first. A good oil must be quite low in viscosity even in the cold, so that it gets around the engine in a fraction of a second on start-up. On the other hand, it must also protect engine components (piston rings for example) at temperatures up to 300 deg C without evaporating or carbonising, and maintain oil pressure. Unmodified thin oils simply can't manage this balancing act. The answer is to use a mixture of thin oil and temperature sensitive polymer, so as the thin oil gets even thinner with increasing temperatures as the engine warms up, the polymer expands and fights back, keeping the viscosity at a reasonable level to hold oil pressure and film thickness on the bearings. All oils have a viscosity index which is the number indicating that rate of change in viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range. Higher numbers indicate a low change, lower numbers indicate a relatively large change. The higher the number the better. This is one major property of an oil that keeps your bearings happy. These numbers can only be compared within a viscosity range (10w-40 vs 10w-40) but here it the important thing............... They do not give an indication of how well the oil resists thermal breakdown! (The oil film tearing or shearing) This is all down to a very important additive called a Viscosity Index improver and it is critical that this is shear stable. VI improvers like all other things in life vary in quality and this is down to cost and availability. In other words, an oil can look great on paper and make impressive claims but, unless all the components are of high quality it will fail to perform under the most arduous conditions. I asked John Rowland the Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R&D Chemist for 40 years to give me his opinion on U.S. oils (including Redline) for another car club and below was his reply: Quote: Simon, Redline and all U.S. oils. The main problem with these is that all American Oils have "low grade" Viscosity improvers in them. Good ones are just not available in the states due to the fact that they are just not required for the majority of American engines. The consequence of this is, although the oils look good on paper with high VI indexes etc they have low grade inprovers so they have a tendency to "shear down" causing a lack of back pressure. For example, the oil you are using may be a 10w-40 but could be operating when hot a 20! JR Unquote: I was intrigued by Johns answer and wanted to know how he knew it was the case in the U.S. that good quality VI improvers were not available. His reply was as follows: Quote: We have found it is impossible to source shear stable VI improvers in the U.S.A. even for ready money! Unquote: Bear in mind here that Fuchs/Silkolene is the largest independent Lube Oil Manufacturer in the World and has facilities in the U.S. So, there you have it, another expensive oil that is not all it's cracked up to be! Mis-information abounds in the oil world and looking behind the marketing hype and claims is impossible unless of course you are a chemist and able to look deep into the oils make-up which neither you nor I can do! Cheers Simon

Bump for this one. Mods - any chance of making it a sticky so that we can build up a database of information? Cheers Simon

Absolutely basic mineral oil, 15w-40, 10w-40 or even 20w-50, just make sure the spec is not higher than API SF which is pretty much the lowest you can get today. A member here (sorry, forgot his name) is using Silkolene Silkolube 20w-50 to run his in, it's an API SF for older vehicle. After 1000 miles, I've advised him to switch to Silkolene PRO S 10w-50 ester fully synthetic. Hope this helps. Cheers Simon

Ian, There are different recommendations depending on whether you car is a Turbo or Twin Turbo. The recommended oils must meet GL4 spec and can be one of the following depending on year and model. 80w-90 Mineral oil 75w-90 Semi syn 75w-90 Fully syn (twin turbo only) Would recommend you look at Silkolene Syn 5 data sheet here: http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm Hope this helps, Cheers Simon

AlexC Interesting collection there! Try Silkolene PRO S 10w-50, I guarantee you won't be dissapointed. Cheers Simon Tech data is here http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm

I'll wait a bit longer as I need some more replies here first. Cheers Simon

I've been doing some comparisons on Castrol RS 10w-60 and decided to involve John Rowland the Silkolene R & D Chemist in my exercise. I sent him a copy of the tech data sheet for this product and asked him for his thoughts. Here is the answer QUOTE: Simon, First, there is something odd about the Castrol Data Sheet. They claim a ‘CCS’ by which I think they mean a ‘Cold Crank Viscosity’ of 4200cP at -35C. this means, if true, that it passes 0W. 10W just requires less than 7000cP at -25C. Is this a misprint? Anyway, with a VI of 170 it is unlikely that the RS will even pass 10W; I’d like to try it on our test apparatus. In any case, even hot-running engines do not need SAE 60 oil these days. (by ‘hot’ I mean 120-130C). remember, SAE 60 is heavier than most SAE 90 gear oils. If an oil is too thick, it de-aerates slowly, leading to cavitation in the oil pump, or the bearings being fed slugs of air along with the oil. Pro-S 10W/50 would be ideal for 300ZX engines. ( a shear-stable xW/50 that stays at 50 is better than an xW/60 that doesn’t!) Regards, JR. UNQUOTE: I've agreed to send him a sample from my stock and he will let me know what he finds! Of course, I will publish the results here or make them available to interested parties depending on how sensitive they are ;) Cheers Simon

OK, let's try a little exercise assuming I can get all the appropriate data sheets off the internet for the companies I don't deal with! If everyone can list here the Oil they use (Make and Grade) I will do an exercise for the Club. I'll compare the Viscosity Index, Flash Point and Pour Point on all these oils and publish the results here including the relevance of these measurements for you. Then we'll be able to have a proper debate on the merits of each one. Service, my pleasure! Cheers Simon

Thanks everyone for all the feedback received on the last thread I posted and I hope it was at the least an "eye-opener" for some. I thought it would be a good idea to keep details of any advice given and a list of recommendations somewhere on this page (hopefully an admin will make it a sticky at some point so that it is easily found). Looking at my comments so far, these are the ones that I feel belong in here, if you have any others then please contribute or ask futher questions which hopefully will make this an interesting FAQ thread one day. Quotes so far: Oilman c/o John Rowland (Silkolene/Fuchs R&D Chemist) So, the chemistry of “synthetics” is complex and so is the politics! The economics are very simple. If you like the look of a smart well-marketed can with “synthetic” printed on it, fair enough, it will not cost you a lot; and now you know why this is the case. But, if you drive a high performance car, and you intend to keep it for several years, and maybe do the odd “track day”, then you need a genuine Ester/PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin) synthetic oil, such as PRO S or PRO R. This oil costs more money to buy, because it costs us a lot of money to make, very simply, you always get what you pay for! Oilman My opinions are frank but based on facts so I'll apolgise in advance if I upset anyone but I will ALWAYS give you the "best advice", you don't have to take it. Finally, oil for the 300zx is an interesting one as the recommendations I have had are based around the Manufacturers which is 10w-40 Semi-syn however, depending on driving conditions, the following grades can be considered 10w-40 semi-syn,10w-50 Fully-syn, 5w-40 fully syn and 15w-50 fully syn. These all have different advantages to the performance of the car depending on how you use the car. Short journeys, long journeys, track days etc.... deve8uk So how about sugesting something for a zx with minor mods, running approx 10psi boost that is a daily driver and normaly does short trips and only rarely gets booted. And I do mean rarely here. Oilman Firstly bear in mind that the car was designed to run on 10w-40 which is the manufacturers recommended oil but as just about all 10w-40's that I know of except for one are semi-synthetics I would go for fully synthetic as it has a higher resistance to thinning down with temperature (a good one that is, not just an excuse for a synthetic with a pretty label) as they stay in grade longer. Oilman For short journeys and lots of cold starts, you need an oil that circulates quickly as this is where 70+ percent of the engine wear occurs so rather than using a 10w consider a 5w, its thinner and circulates more easily. 0w is even quicker but may be too thin and you could end up with oil seal leaks. For faster longer journeys where the engine is operating a high temperatures (hard driving) I would consider a 10w-50 or 10w-60 to give more protection at the top end but you want an oil that has a high resistance to thinning down and "stays in grade" longer. Ester is the best for this (see note below). For racing and track days, you need an oil that will give more protection still and I would consider a 15w-50 which is a recognised motorsport and racing oil which will protect you almost entirely at the top end. RichardSmith What are your views on Millers XFS 5w40 and Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 fully synthetics? Oilman Difficult to comment really as I've never stocked Shell or Millers. I would be happy using Shell but based on Millers prices, I wonder about the quality, the first post here may be relevant to their oils but without the data it's difficult to say for sure. I'll try to speak to some technical bods on monday and see if they have any data or experience of these oils. Here are some comments so far for kick off. Cheers Simon

PaulC, if you drop the oil every 3000 miles a 10w-40 is fine, its well within the life of this oil which is around 9000-12000 miles. I'm sure you'll find the 5w-40 will last longer in the engine as it's a fully so if you intend to use it, keep it there for a minimum of 6000 miles. Richard, Difficult to comment really as I've never stocked Shell or Millers. I would be happy using Shell but based on Millers prices, I wonder about the quality, the first post here may be relevant to their oils but without the data it's difficult to say for sure. I'll try to speak to some technical bods on monday and see if they have any data or experience of these oils. They're popular in some circles but I think it comes down to price. Cheers Simon

PaulC, It's a question of taste and cost, do you really need a 0w? It is too thin for some engines and you can be storing up for later problems. The new D grade, what's it called and I'll check it. Cheers Simon

PaulC, My apoligies for that, I should have gone to bed. Got home at 1.00am yesterday evening having seen the excellent Mr Jamie Cullem and should have gone to bed rather than trying to answer the 60+ emails recieved since 5.30pm! I've been on Mobils website this morning and pulled down the technical data sheets which give the tech differences as follows: Super S 10w-40 Synthetic blend (in other words semi or part syn) ACEA A2,B2,A3,B3 API SL,SJ,CF VI Index 157 Mercedes 229.1 Synt S 5w-40 Synthetic (fully syn) ACEA A3,B3,B4 API SJ,SL,CF VI Index 175 Mercedes 229.3 The differences in reality are the following: The 10w-40 is an older spec oil and a semi-syn, the 5w-40 is a newer fully syn oil with a newer MB spec. The main things to note here are: (and they are no surprise when comparing fully vs semi-synthetic) The Fully has a significantly higher VI Index which is the measure of the oils resistance to thinning down with temperature. Fully syns (at least good ones) will always be better when hot, they are more stable. The gains for the car owner here are important as the 5w will circulate better when cold as it is thinner than the 10w. The upper viscosity of 40 is the same but the fully synthetic is better as indicated by the VI index. The reasons for the change are probably twofold: 1) The 10w-40 is an older spec and doesn't meet the demands of the new engines calling for a 229.3 but the older cars calling for 229.1 will benefit from using the fully syn as it meets and exceeds their requirements. 2) MB are playing it safe and uprating their oils to ensure that all requirements are met with one oil rather than two. Lastly, as this oil (5w-40) is for more than one OEM, the oil has been uprated for BMW, VW etc as it carries their more up to date specs as well. I hope this helps, Cheers Simon

Hmm, Paul C first. I'm not really up on bike oils and don't stock the Mobil ones, only Silkolene which we have always found to be top notch. Their electrosyntec technology is truly clever stuff. So I wouldn't like to comment. Mobil 1, good stuff yes but POA not ester which I would always favour for its clear benefits over POA's. Additives, I'm really not the expert here and don't sell them other than PRO BOOST which is a good octane improver. 1986 or not, the AA is not an oil company and I believe has to act in all cases on behalf of its Members. Damage is not the issue, it's the claims that are the issue, there are no benefits so why pay for it is the gist of the article I think you'll find. Mobil 1 5w-50, seems expensive and as a point of note an odd grade, 5w-50 is a non-seller most people opt for 5w-40 or 10w-40 or 10w-50/60. I'm guessing Mobil has a stockpile and needs a shed to move it. Still many thousands will buy it as it will look good on Asdas shelves and the label will attract them like flys - suited for their car or not, you'll see plenty of escorts running on this soon then -LOL! Cheers Simon

Ok, the driving is important here. Firstly bear in mind that the car was designed to run on 10w-40 which is the manufacturers recommended oil but as just about all 10w-40's that I know of except for one are semi-synthetics I would go for fully synthetic as it has a higher resistance to thinning down with temperature (a good one that is, not just an excuse for a synthetic with a pretty label) as they stay in grade longer. So, 10w-40 is supposedly ideal but you need something which affords better protection at the bottom end (cold) and top end (hot) if you want to "step-up" as I already know many of you have. To put it simply it works as follows: For short journeys and lots of cold starts, you need an oil that circulates quickly as this is where 70+ percent of the engine wear occurs so rather than using a 10w consider a 5w, its thinner and circulates more easily. 0w is even quicker but may be too thin and you could end up with oil seal leaks. For faster longer journeys where the engine is operating a high temperatures (hard driving) I would consider a 10w-50 or 10w-60 to give more protection at the top end but you want an oil that has a high resistance to thinning down and "stays in grade" longer. Ester is the best for this (see note below). For racing and track days, you need an oil that will give more protection still and I would consider a 15w-50 which is a recognised motorsport and racing oil which will protect you almost entirely at the top end. * Contrary to popular belief, 0w oils are rarely used for racing for the reasons given above. I am fully aware that many of you use Castrol 10w-60 and don't read me wrongly here, if you're happy with it it's available in 1 and 4 litre sizes but it isn't an "Ester" synthetic and there for doesn't have the same advantages as an Ester synthetic. Esters are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces) so they help reduce wear and friction but don't confuse this with magnatec. The proper description is "Electrosyntec" patented by Silkolene through their longstanding involvement with motorcycle racing and highly stressed bike engines. They are very fluid at low temperatures and extremely chemically stable at high temperatures (stay in grade and don't evaporate). Waxing lyrical maybe but for a good reason, they are the best! At the end of the day, it's your car and your decision, just some facts to help you on your way. Cheers Simon

UCL = Upper Cylinder Lubricant. Cheers Simon

Ok, I would like to put some facts straight here. I'm not here (in this topic) to advertise my Company and will be publishing no prices here on the General Forum, I'll leave them in the Traders Section or whatever (once I find my way around the site). I'm here to answer questions, give advice and recommendations to the Members of this Club. I accept that everyone knows everything there is to know about oil and the best oils to use in their cars so it may fall on deaf ears but most Clubs find my services and prices a benefit to their Members. Hopefully I can at least expose some of the myths and give sound "technical" advice. I would like to point out that, I sell Castrol, Mobil, Silkolene, Fuchs and Total Oils and have no particular loyalty to one brand (Customers buy what they are comfortable with) however, I normally recommend oils based on the following criteria: 1) Technical Specifications 2) Quality compared to others of the same performance 3) Price comparisons (VFM) Naturally, I have my favorites but this is based on quality and performance and whether I would use them myself in my cars. Many of the oils I sell are not available in the shops or the sheds, they are specialist oils only available through Authorised Distributors like myself (eg I don't sell Magnatec as it's a "shed" grade but I do to supply the superior Castrol Performance 10w-40 semi-syn not available in the shops). On a public forum there are drawbacks, especially if the product is made by a supplier of mine so I may "duck" some questions and reply to you personally by PM. My opinions are frank but based on facts so I'll apolgise in advance if I upset anyone but I will ALWAYS give you the "best advice", you don't have to take it. Finally, oil for the 300zx is an interesting one as the recommendations I have had are based around the Manufacturers which is 10w-40 Semi-syn however, depending on driving conditions, the following grades can be considered 10w-40 semi-syn,10w-50 Fully-syn, 5w-40 fully syn and 15w-50 fully syn. These all have different advantages to the performance of the car depending on how you use the car. Short journeys, long journeys, track days etc.... At the end of the day, it's your car and you must use what you're happy with but I will attempt to compare different oils based on their technical data and give you my honest opinion on whats best. You may wish to look at the technical data for yourself which can be downloaded in PDF format here: http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm Thanks, Simon Barnard.

A WORD OF CAUTION ON ADDITIVES! This is the transcript of an AA article published in Motor May 10th 1986. The widely-advertised oil additive Slick 50 has been soundly slammed by the AA’s Technical Services. The AA claim that their tests show Slick 50 provides no fuel savings when it is added to a cars engine oil – and there is no evidence of any other benefits under normal operating conditions. The AA have made no press or public announcement of their report, but have produced a leaflet for the benefit of any paid-up members who apply for one. An AA member on Motor’s staff applied for a report in the normal way. The report states that whilst there is no evidence the product will do harm to the engine, one good point is that most of it will be very rapidly removed by the oil filter. “At about £12 per treatment”, say the AA, “it is a very expensive way of coating your oil filter element”. The AA performed tests by taking three identical cars and carefully running them in, splitting the driving equally among their test drivers. Oils were changed at 1500 miles, the cars were run a further 500 miles to stabilise the oils’ viscosity, the cars’ tuning was carefully checked and steady speed fuel consumptions and power outputs were measured. The report says: “The procedure is so sensitive that, for instance, leaving the headlamps of the car switched on will make a nonsense of the results due to the extra drag of the charging system”. Engineers added Slick 50 to two of the cars in the recommended way at 3000 miles. After a further 2000 miles, further dynamometer tests were carried out. “One car should show the sort of gradual change expected of a car in good condition” says the report, “whereas two should show a noticeable improvement . Here came the big disappointment. After our several months of careful testwork, we could not distinguish any difference between the three cars.” The AA claimed that all cars were performing well, but performance was remarkably consistent , within a few percent. The AA say that a detailed examination of the claims made for the product will explain what happens when Slick 50 is added to an engine. Of one gallon of petrol burnt in an engine, says the report, some 60 percent of the energy will be lost as heat from the exhaust and cooling system. That leaves 40 percent and some 25 percent is used to drive the car and its accessories. The remaining 15 percent goes to losses such as pumping air into the engine (6 percent) and some 9 percent is lost as engine friction. Of that 9 percent, 6 percent is lost in churning the oil and only 3 percent of the total input goes into the sort of “boundary” friction that a solid lubricant could affect. “If tests of Slick 50 did show a 16 percent decrease in this friction, as claimed in current advertisements”, says the report, “it would only affect the car’s overall consumption by a half of one percent”. The AA also claim that their tests show there is no evidence that Slick 50 produces a surface layer on the engine wearing surfaces, let alone one that could last for 100,000 miles. On questioning John Rowland, Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R&D Chemist for 40 years about additives, I received the following reply. Quote: The AA report encapsulates my opinion of Slick 50, it is an expensive way of blocking your oil filter, Believe me, it does precisely nothing beneficial. It has been proven time and time again that it just blocks oil filters and oilways. For all other “magic” additives, most are based on 1930’s technology corrosive chlorinated paraffins. (synthetic anti-seize compounds originally made 70 years ago. They are cheap, toxic and corrosive. We use them in certain types of cutting oil!) Do not touch them with somebody else’s bargepole! UCL’s on the other hand can be useful. After all, 2-strokes in effect run entirely on UCL. So……the best UCL’s are 2-stroke oils! I always tell people to use a decent 2-stroke at 0.5% or 1%, because they are superior to the UCL’s sold as UCL’s if you get my drift. A litre of Super 2 Injector or Comp-2 will be better than a cupful of cheap mineral oil dyed red (no prizes for guessing the name) any day. Vee engines (twins, to V8’s) benefit from UCL’s because the upper walls of the RH cylinder bank, looking from the front, always run dry. Think about it! Unquote: So, there you have it. Cheers, Simon Barnard

WHY ARE ESTERS SO GOOD? They assist the additive pack in a motor oil formulation because they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), so they help to reduce wear and friction. They are fluid at very low temperatures and at high temperatures they are very chemically stable and have low volatility (don’t evaporate away). They also help to prevent hardening and cracking of oil seals at high temperatures. Cheers Simon

Hi, you'll probably be hearing a bit from me in the coming months but I thought it would be of interest to post this item. A word of caution – You get what you pay for! Below is an article written by John Rowland, Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R & D Chemist for 40 years. Quote: Costs of synthetics vary considerably. The most expensive are the “Ester” types originally only used in jet engines. These cost 6 to 10 times more than high quality mineral oils. The cheapest synthetics are not really synthetic at all, from a chemists point of view. These are in fact specially refined light viscosity mineral oils known as “hydrocracked”. These have some advantages over equivalent mineral oils, particularly in lower viscosity motor oils such as 5w-30 or other oils with a low “W” rating such as 5w-50 etc and they cost about 1.5 times more than good quality mineral fractions. We use several different grades of this base oil, where appropriate. This is the “synthetic” which is always used in cheap oils that are labelled “synthetic”. Yes it’s a cruel world, you get what you pay for! Now, you may ask, why are these special mineral oils called “synthetic”? Well, it was all sorted in a legal battle that took place in the USA about ten years ago. Sound reasons (including evidence from a Nobel Prize winning chemist) were disregarded and the final ruling was that certain mineral bases that had undergone extra chemical treatments could be called “synthetic”. Needless to say, the marketing executives wet their knickers with pure delight! They realised that this meant, and still does, that the critical buzz-word “synthetic” could be printed on a can of cheap oil provided that the contents included a few percent of “hydrocracked” mineral oil, at a cost of quite literally a few pence. So, the chemistry of “synthetics” is complex and so is the politics! The economics are very simple. If you like the look of a smart well-marketed can with “synthetic” printed on it, fair enough, it will not cost you a lot; and now you know why this is the case. But, if you drive a high performance car, and you intend to keep it for several years, and maybe do the odd “track day”, then you need a genuine Ester/PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin) synthetic oil, such as PRO S or PRO R. This oil costs more money to buy, because it costs us a lot of money to make, very simply, you always get what you pay for! UNQUOTE: This article is something that all car owners should read and understand before buying oil and I’ve posted this with Johns permission. Cheers, Simon Barnard. OPIE OILS