anyone believe that these people can tell you things from beyond the grave, i believe, even more so now, went to see one last nite (well me and 7 other peeps)

 

got told some things that rang true, also got told something that no one else knows about, how could he have known?????

i was told i have a very strong medium ability, he was quite shocked when he told me, he said i have the ability but dont know how to use it

i think i'm gonna get this done, i'd love to know whats gonna happen in the future

As far as I'm concerned if you can't measure it with scientific aparatus then it doesn't exist.

 

Just watch Derren Brown, he did a program on spiritualists and the like.

As far as I'm concerned if you can't measure it with scientific aparatus then it doesn't exist.

 

Just watch Derren Brown, he did a program on spiritualists and the like.

 

Then explain "Dark Matter". Or, if you want to take a more obtuse line, "love". You can't quantify either but still, they're accepted as being "there".

Then explain "Dark Matter". Or, if you want to take a more obtuse line, "love". You can't quantify either but still, they're accepted as being "there".

 

Not true.

 

My heart is made of stone, there's no love in it :D

But there was a time when we thought the world was flat or the universe revolved around the earth but we now understand these things. I accept that there are still many things we cannot understand but we are now a hell of a lot more knowledgable and do not need some magical myths to cling to. People of old needed to shake a shrunken head on a stick, dance round the totem pole or say hail marys because they were scared and brainwashed by the various penalties of being a non believer. The human race should have moved on from that now.

Not true.

 

My heart is made of stone, there's no love in it :D

 

Lol Rob! :rofl:;) Oi! pipe daahn in the cheap seats we're avin' a serius filosofical diskusion like...er... :wack::D:rofl:

People of old needed to shake a shrunken head on a stick, dance round the totem pole or say hail marys because they were scared and brainwashed by the various penalties of being a non believer. The human race should have moved on from that now.

So you're now saying belief, as a whole, is "outmoded" and defunct in the face of scientific progress? (I take it from the pejorative reference to Catholocism you're including Christianity?).

 

You seem to be trying to weigh everything from a solely "scientific" stand-point yet your original post seemed to be coloured by a fair whack of vitriol towards "spiritualism" (and other belief systems? Let's face it, from a purely scientific stand-point, why should one be subject to more apparent disdain than another as, by their very nature, religion requires an act of faith which, as AndyP mentioned, cannot be emperically quantified).

 

May I ask you a question? What is

your stand on religion/belief? Are you a Christian for example? Do you believe in a higher power? Or, as your last post seems to suggest, are you an aetheist?

 

I also ask as the language used in your first post would have been equally at home coming from a fervent right-wing Evangelical Christian.

 

Personally speaking, I see the schism between Science and Religion as positively ludicrous. I "believe" there is no reason why the two can't co-exist peacefully, if you will. Indeed I also "believe" that there may come a point where they become very much intertwined. Speak to a ceratin section of theoretical physicists and it won't be long before the conversation turns to decidedly "non-scientific" subject matter...

Heres a thought..................

 

If you deny the existance of something then that in itself is proof of its existance? Because if it really didnt exist there would be no mention of it. The possibility of existance is enough to prove existance until it is proved that it dosent acctually exist at which point it should never be mentioned again? :D:x:

 

existance = existence;)

Edited August 4, 200817 yr by viniboy

Heres a thought..................

 

If you deny the existance of something then that in itself is proof of its existance? Because if it really didnt exist there would be no mention of it. The possibility of existance is enough to prove existance until it is proved that it dosent acctually exist at which point it should never be mentioned again? :D:x:

 

existance = existence;)

 

Cogito ergo sum.

 

If you'll permit the summary ;)

Cogito ergo sum.

 

If you'll permit the summary ;)

 

Exactly. In the words of Descartes. :D

Its all a load of ballswallocks.

 

Anything that cant be instantly identified or explained is always put down to spirits/ghosts/religion/aliens.

 

And normally by those who are desperate to believe in one or many of the above.

 

Yes there are a lot of things we cant explain fully or are a bit odd, but I bet they all have naff all to do with spirits/ghosts/religion/aliens.

Its most likely all Elvis coming back form the dead.

 

 

^See a funny comment, yet its no less laughable than any of the other stories in this thread so far ;)

Its most likely all Elvis coming back form the dead.

 

 

^See a funny comment, yet its no less laughable than any of the other stories in this thread so far ;)

 

Elvis wont be coming back............Because he never went away? :D

 

Just because he died dont mean he dosent exist anymore it just means that he might not be aware of he's own existance any longer. But the mere fact that you have mentioned him poroves that he still exists. :D

Exactly. In the words of Descartes. :D

 

Er...kind of my point old chap! :)

 

Its all a load of ballswallocks.

 

 

And while we're quoting folks here's another (somewhat b@stadized) one for takemetothepublichouseminesaginifyourebuying (Voltaire via Evelyn Beatrice Hall...my MA finally sees some use after all! Huzzah!):

 

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

 

I'm not out to convert anyone and, frankly, couldn't give a flying bag of badgers whether you "believe" (ahhh) that science will save our souless asses or that salvation in fact lies with a small otter called Wayne. In the end, it's whatever gets you through the night. ;)

No I am not into religion or spiritualism of any kind, I am a true believer in science however I do find the subject quite fascinating hence I may come across as swinging towards both sides in my posts. I am not being argumentative here, you know a lot more than I do and I actually enjoy learning more about it. Religion from a historical point of view is very interesting especially if your looking at it from a neutral position.

As far as traditional religions go, I find it beggars belief that some people in effect waste their lives dedicating it to no more than mythology and superstition, its like these people that dedicate their whole lives to building a shrine to star wars and learning every line from every film.

I have worked with a lot of catholics and i must stress that the younger generations are more reasonable about it but some of the older ones are still very predudice and look at non catholics as evil heritics that should be burnt alive. Some even speak with fondness of the good old days when it was acceptable for nuns to whip their fanatical beliefs into small children in catholic schools. What makes them so sure they are right and everyone else is wrong?

Nobody can deny that religion had been a tool over the centuries to make a hell of a lot of money and keep the lower classes fixed firmly in their place.

i dont feel religion and science can live together, for centuries religions only answer to anything it does not like for example scientific discovery or the discovery of ancient scriptures has been delt with by sticking their fingers in their ears and refusing to even consider it.

Science may not have all the proof but religion has absolutely none!

Ancient texts written by men not gods, provide no evidence of anything whatsoever.

No I am not into religion or spiritualism of any kind, I am a true believer in science however I do find the subject quite fascinating hence I may come across as swinging towards both sides in my posts. I am not being argumentative here, you know a lot more than I do and I actually enjoy learning more about it. Religion from a historical point of view is very interesting especially if your looking at it from a neutral position.

As far as traditional religions go, I find it beggars belief that some people in effect waste their lives dedicating it to no more than mythology and superstition, its like these people that dedicate their whole lives to building a shrine to star wars and learning every line from every film.

I have worked with a lot of catholics and i must stress that the younger generations are more reasonable about it but some of the older ones are still very predudice and look at non catholics as evil heritics that should be burnt alive. Some even speak with fondness of the good old days when it was acceptable for nuns to whip their fanatical beliefs into small children in catholic schools. What makes them so sure they are right and everyone else is wrong?

Nobody can deny that religion had been a tool over the centuries to make a hell of a lot of money and keep the lower classes fixed firmly in their place.

i dont feel religion and science can live together, for centuries religions only answer to anything it does not like for example scientific discovery or the discovery of ancient scriptures has been delt with by sticking their fingers in their ears and refusing to even consider it.

Science may not have all the proof but religion has absolutely none!

Ancient texts written by men not gods, provide no evidence of anything whatsoever.

 

Having to rush this post as about to head out but here go's:

 

The religious texts I mentioned, the scrolls found at Nag Hammadi, illustrate your very point, and one that I completely agree with! They are the scriptures that were omitted from the Bible. Most people have this idea that the scriptures in the Bible were the only ones and somehow almost chosen by some sort of "divine intervention". Wrong. They were chosen by a group of "Church Fathers", men who wanted to express their own version of Christian Dogma (the expulsion of the female aspect for a start...which carries on to this day...the recent Anglican split over Female Clergy for example). Those submissions that weren't in line with their thinking were expunged. Which is why I dislike the dogma surrounding Christianity. Does this mean I find the essence of the religion somehow at fault...no! The original teachings of love and peace hold true, it is the influence of the patriarchal Christian Elders and the reverberating effect through the ages that have skewed them. Which brings me to your points: no one (in their right mind! IMO ;)) would disagree that violence or abuse in the name of religion is ever right or justified however this doesn't make the essence of the religion itself wrong.

Edited August 5, 200817 yr by friday

You know what? I reckon everyone is right. Even though I went to a C of E school and I believe that there is something out there, I'm not a religious person. The reason being that I don't think that any one religion is correct. It's all interpretations of the same thing that we, as a species, do not, possibly cannot, and possibly are not supposed to understand.

 

Personally, even though I'm a very logical person, I believe there is SOMETHING. Just not some bloke with a beard sitting on a cloud. Otherwise, how do you explain things like deja vu?

 

All it boils down to for me is: respect other people's beliefs even if you don't necessarily agree with them, live a considerate life and try to be a good person. And when we're supposed to find out for sure, we will!

 

Oh and regarding mediums - not sure as I've never been to one, but I'm open to the concept. My other half was told she had a strong natural ability by a spiritualist when she was back in Aus as soon as she met her. So much so that she wanted to train her, but she never got the chance. What the woman said came true though - such as marrying an English bloke and living over here amongst other things.

 

Look what you started, StellaZ ;)