Right, I'm not too up on this subject and my image of a person who seems to know what hes doing is gonna go right out the window.

Chipping my car, firstly how much approximatley would it cost? I still have stock internals and I am not looking to go mad.

Im not talking huge increases like MAC's car or K4$H's car. I just want a chip which will bring my boost up to a higher but still stable level.

What would you recomend?

Also, whould there be a huge difference in fuel economey? I dont floor it every where. I have little bursts of power every now and then.

 

Right after babbling on for a few mins, it comes down to.

 

Aproximate cost? keeping in mind my car is stock besides induction and exhaust and I do not want to go mad.

 

Will it be reliable? I dont want engines blowing on my left right and centre.

 

What difference in performance can I expect? Not expecting to half my 0-60. But aprox how much more BHP are we looking. I know its impossible to say cos all engines are different.

 

Miles Per Gallon? I know it should go down, but are we talking loads or just a little?

 

Will all the original ECU safty procedures till be in place? They are there to save my engine if anything is wrong. Will it still do that?

 

Will the chip just change boost or does it do more?

 

Thanks

 

Stuart

 

Finished Babbling

The chip does not control the boost, but it does however enable you to raise the boost with say bleed jets or boost controller, with a greater level of safety (like intercoolers - oops don't go there).

 

The mappings on the chip control all the interesting stuff like fuel and inginition systems.

 

[This message has been edited by AndyP (edited 11-07-2002).]

Yes, I know that they dont produce more boost. It allows more if it to enter the engine.

I'm not going into 'which chip' debate.

 

However, SE developed one of their chips on my car and I was there throughout. So, based on what I know of their chip only :

 

1) If you don't boot it around, it won't affect mpg - my chip at list was only altered at high air flow / high revs. However, Pete did knock out a flat spot lower down which theoretically should have improved fuel consumption. I did calculations before and after the chip and it didn't change.

 

2) My car ran completely fine on stock internals and I'm not aware of anyone else with my chip having any problems. My peak boost was set at 14.5.

 

3) Power was measured before, during and after mods on the rollers. It went up by just over 50 bhp (Pete R has the graphs if anyone wants to see them). The starting point was the SE upgrade of boost jets with retarded ignition. If you're currently on standard boost, I would suggest that you can expect somewhere in the region of 60-80 bhp from a tailored chip for your car and in the order of 50 bhp for an off the shelf. It doesn't sound a lot when you start with 280-300 but believe me you really do notice it. All those figures assume you are on standard boost and upgrade the boost at the same time as the chip.

 

Boost jets and a chip are, I think, one of the most cost effective upgrades. But that's before you calculate the cost to your insurance ...

 

Dave

Originally posted by Hairsy:

It went up by just over 50 bhp (Pete R has the graphs if anyone wants to see them). The starting point was the SE upgrade of boost jets with retarded ignition.

 

I really don't want to cause another big argument. However, I do have a question about this.

 

You say that you started with boost jets and retarded ignition and gained 50bhp by using their chip. Was the ignition advanced back to standard or beyond, or was it left retarded by the same amount when you got the higher figure? If it was advanced, wouldn't most of the gains be due to that rather than the chip?

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Dave Marley (edited 12-07-2002).]

That's OK - not gonna get an argument from me. Perfectly valid question.

 

With the PC attached, the ignition curve was optimised which means that, yes, where power had been 'reduced' through retarding, that power was regained.

 

This really comes down to the discussion over whether boost should be increased with standard chip. Again from my own experience, that is still a very effective mod. It isn't as good as a chip and no retarding but it's still good.

 

So, in answer, yes. Part of the increase would have been by optimising ignition. But if I'd had standard boost and standard ignition timing to start with then the increase would have been even higher.

 

Dave

Ok,

 

Chips here goes,

 

AMD in Oxford, they chip Porsches, and would chip each vehicle on the rollers. So no off the shelf stuff, which is better because no two engines are the same.

 

I Spoke with Racelogic, who supply the equipment to chip the cars in the first place, and I mentioned I had a 300ZX, they didnt even mention SE. They told me to use Power Engineering. The Subaru guys.

 

If you want the best available then Power Plus in Belgium, are the guys. They produce maps for Rally cars, and F3. Also because of the exchange rate, and you may get away with not paying tax it would be reasonably priced. www.power-plus.be

 

Leigh

 

 

Leigh,

 

do you have to go to Belgium or are the places you mentioned dealers for Power Plus?

 

Cheers - Gio

Reading their site, it looks like they take your ECU and solder a socket on to it, so and place the chip into the socket. So then you can take out the chip and drop in your old one when you want.

I have emailed them asking how its done.

Stuart.

Mike,

 

They are all independant places, so you would have to go to Belgium.

 

You could even reduce your costs, by bringing a boot load of fags back. Belgium is the cheapest place for fags.

 

PP are in Brussels, so only about 1 hour from the tunnel.

 

Leigh

Just one really important point : there is no global definition of 'best' when it comes to chips. Most powerful is most risky.

 

Best is personal preference. So I'd say talk to people who have chips (and ideally those who've had more than one - there are some on here) and hear the pro's and con's.

 

Individual tuning is likely to generate more safe power than off the shelf. But it's dependent on operator skill and subject to human error etc. Off the shelf chips have a history behind them.

 

My personal view of best would be a custom mapped chip - but many on here (including many who's opinion I have huge respect for) recommend off the shelf, tried & tested chips. And neither of us are wrong.

 

Dave

Dave,

 

That depends on wether you trust a back street tunning shop, or professionals to do the job!!!!

 

I would trust a company with motorsport connections, and reputation.

 

Off the shelf are normally very safe due to the differences in engines. If you have spent money on other parts, then its best to get an individual chip for your engine.

 

Also the emulator SE uses comes from Race Logic, and they didnt even mention them when I asked about who would they use to chip the 300ZX.

 

I was at an SE open day when they showed what they were doing and explaining things. Some of what they were saying was B***SH*T.

I have spent time with a guy called Ahmed Bayhoo, who works for Ford Rally team, and I know whats involved with tunning properly.

 

Power Plus follows the same principles with chipping, and hence why I feel they are better.

 

Leigh

Leigh mate, which openday did you go to? 1st or 2nd? What were you driving at the time?

 

Was it the one with Crazy Eddies car in the workshop and laptop plugged in as the demo car for the day?

 

I wouldn't say that SE are numpties when it comes to mapping and producing aftermarket chips. They do far more than just fitting bodykits and rebuilds and Pete is very good with the Skylarks not just 200's and 300's.

 

Also they do have good motorsport connections and regularly run teams in rallying events etc.

 

Me 2p...nothing less, nothing more! LOL

 

All IMO and Without Prejudice etc. etc. etc.

 

Smile everyone!!!

 

P.S. SE do also have in their posession the undisputed heavyweight Z of GB being Andy Elephants which I believe is now pushing around 750bhp out!!!

 

Have heard good things about Power Engineering also.

 

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[This message has been edited by Timmy_Turbo (edited 12-07-2002).]

Right, let's see if I've got me head round this.

 

1) You get someone to socket your ECU so you can easily plug-in/-out chips without having to do the solder malarky every time (fiddly and risky).

 

2) You can get "off-the-shelf" chips made by various bods which are suited to your engine. Some of these are suited to a particular set of common mods: eg, induction kit, exhaust.

 

3) You can get programmable chips which will let the tuning company set up your particular engine with its particular mods.

 

4) You can get units which replace or piggyback onto your ECU. These will allow you to - what? Modify your maps on the fly? Choose from a set of maps depending on whether you are pootling along or having a track day.

 

The point of all of these is that the OEM ECU will be set up very conservatively. For longevity, for economy, for safety, to allow for LCD fuel etc.

 

An "off-the-shelf" chip will allow slightly more "extreme" settings to give you more power and / or run higher boost for more power.

 

A chip which is matched precisely to your car's mods allows you to get closer to the safe (bang bang tinkle boom) limit i.e. lets you get yet more power.

 

How'm I doing so far?

Mike,

 

Your doing well mate.

Its just if you spent a lot of money on parts, then dont skimp on the final and most important bit, the mapping.

 

Pay you money and get it done on a rolling road, with the final setup being checked on the open road, with real air flow.

 

Who people trust is up to them, but I was just giving some other companies outside of the SE circle.

 

If I get hold of Ahmed, his moved since I last saw him, I would get him to do the mapping.

 

Power plus are nearest to what he did.

 

Leigh

 

 

Please Sir, can I have one of these please???

 

APEXi Power FC

 

 

 

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or just get someone to set up a MoTec unit for your car

www.motec.com

 

motec engine management

Thanks, Leigh & All

Any one know what stuff Hiteq does?

Do they just off the shelf stuff or make their own?

Would an off the shelf chip just increase boost, if so would it not then just be cheaper to get a Boost Controler thing.

 

Stuart

Originally posted by SRRAE:

Any one know what stuff Hiteq does?

Do they just off the shelf stuff or make their own?

Would an off the shelf chip just increase boost, if so would it not then just be cheaper to get a Boost Controler thing.

 

Stuart

 

Stu have you been paying attention or messing around at the back of the class again??? LMFAO

 

Chip removes your top speed restriction, generally provides more fuel higher up the rev range etc. So that's when you install boost jets/boost controller(which incidentally increases the boost pressure) you go faster!

 

Intake provides more air, bigger intercoolers cool that air charge down to make it more dense so it burns faster when ignited with the fuel. Higer octane fuel, more cold air and under a shit load more pressure = more power to the Zederoonies!!! Got it???

 

Big turbos and big mother exhaust sucks the burnt gases out quicker. It's all about suck and blow! LMFAO

 

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[This message has been edited by Timmy_Turbo (edited 12-07-2002).]

ok,

so say i had i boost controller, and standard chip, what would be the max boost i could run on standard turbos ( roughly)? what psi is standard boost? and finally using the boost controller roughly how much extra power an i looking at (again roughly i know other mods such as filter and shit will make a difference.)

oh and whats the show at the nec which kash's car will hopefully be shown? is anyone else going?

 

Originally posted by Timmy_Turbo:

Stu have you been paying attention or messing around at the back of the class again??? LMFAO

 

Sorry Sir

 

 

Right. Thats what I have been trying to find out.

Now! What is the approximate cost of one of these? Can I get the needed stuff from Johnny? Or should I contact Hiteq which is 5 mins away.

 

Stuart

Boost jet install is crude and permanent so you can't adjust the boost once they've been installed but is peanuts next to an electronic boost controller. Electronic boost controllers range from about 300 squids to infinity and beyond. Need to be installed by someone who knows WTF they are doing and same for setting up. Don't initially set them up correctly you stand the high chance of blowing things up...expensive things! LOL

 

Chip or boost controller?

 

ChrisC for fish & chips bud...oh and boost jet installs!

 

Johnny boy at GPS for all things boost controllerish...and there are many to choose from trust me.

 

You won't get Johnny until next week now though unless you get yer ass down to Max Power Live as him and the Latzio will be there all weekend.

 

I might go Sunday, not sure yet.

 

Stock boost max is about 9psi max to run on stock turbos I think is no more than 14/15 psi!!!

 

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[This message has been edited by Timmy_Turbo (edited 12-07-2002).]

I would highly recomend "JeffTT" at ZedWorld,he chipped my Ztt and fitted boost-jets also cleaned my throttle bodies.I'm more than chuffed with his standard of work and end result.Top Man...........If you read this Jeff ,the speed of light is still not within my grasp (Hint!)

 

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