Hi everyone, I would like your opinions/advice on a situation. I'll try and not be too specific for legal reasons.

It might take a while to read but I if you can take the time it would really, really, really, help me out - Being stressed out at Christmas time is not the best!!!.

 

In September this year I bought a new car and advertised my old car for sale. I was approached by someone who wanted my old car and they offered me a swap for theirs. Their car was also a Jap import, it was a model I really liked so my sensible hat came off we did an exchange. The problem was I still had two cars.

 

Less than one month later, realizing that I'd not had the time to use the car much and the situation was likely to continue, I decided to sell it. I had it serviced and MOT'd and stuck it on ebay.

 

My ebay advert attracted loads of attention and it was also advertised elsewhere. Several people were making me offers and asking me to remove it from the auction and sell the car to them but I was reluctant to do so at first.

 

One guy made me an offer with several days of the auction to run, £6000, it seemed like a fair price and it was the best I had received at that point. I invited him to see the car but I told him i did not want to end the auction early, in case he did not buy it or changed his mind.

 

As he promised he came to have a look at the car a few days later, by this time I had received several offers that were higher than his, one was over £7000. He had traveled quite far to look at the car so I wanted to do the decent thing and let him have the option to buy it.

 

He seemed to know the model of car well and spent about 2 hours looking over it. I went with him and he test drove it for about 30 miles.

 

He was really happy with it but he noticed several faults which I was unaware off - The rear heated screen did not work properly and the rear speakers were very quiet when the fader was put to the rear. The speedometer also had a fault, I had a complete replacement instrument panel the previous owner gave to me which I offered to have fitted for him but he had a sat nav thing which told you the speed you were going to so he said he did not mind.

 

He also pointed out that although it said on the original receipt from the import garage it was a 1995, he thought it was a 1994 model. The car was an M reg which covered both years, some paperwork said it was a 1994 others said it was a 1995. I said I had been told it was a 1995 model but there was no way to know for sure and either way it made no difference to me.

 

He may have been trying to knock me down on the price but I had told him I had received higher offers since his. So, he ended handing over £6000 as per his original offer. He seemed like a nice guy and I was happy for it to go to him even though I had to turn away buyers with higher offers. I then canceled the ebay add and canceled all the people who had made bids on ebay.

 

 

 

About a week or so later he sent me an email, telling me he wanted money off the car. He me had been unable to get insurance cover as I did not have the certificate for the alarm. He said that he had to get a new alarm fitted and told me it cost several hundred pounds. He also told me that he was now unhappy with the fact the speedo was not working properly because he told me this could mean the mileage could be higher than indicated. He said that it could be counting in miles rather than KMS or something. He went on to mention all the things that he discovered while looking at the car and during the test drive, the things that he mentioned to me at the time. He also told me he now thought the exhaust was too noisy and wanted to get a new one fitted!

 

And now the killer, he told me he wanted me to give him £2000 to have all this done! I was flabbergasted. I gave him a call. He said that I had to give him all the money he was asking for because he had a print of the cars ebay advert. He said that I did not mention the things he had discovered in the auction and as a result he could sue me for misrepresentation. That seems crazy to me because HE was the one that discovered the faults and pointed them out to me BEFORE buying the car. Furthermore, he did not buy the car from ebay or even place a bid on the car.

 

I called citizens advice, they told me it sounded like he trying to chance his arm and advised me not to offer him a penny.

 

Now, this morning I have discovered a letter in my mailbox. Its a letter from him via a lawer threatening to take me to court if I dont pay him money.

 

Do we have any legal experts on this board? (I seem to remember from earlier posts that we do).

 

And has anyone else experience this situation?

 

I'm keen to know what your thoughts are. Could he be right? I'll feel taken advantage off if he is but I want to stay on the right side of the law.

he didnt actually buy the car through your advert, he boiught it out side of e bay.

 

he also had a lengthy test drive, in which he had time to find all faults, he would need to prove in court that you knew of all the faults, DONT GIVE HIM A PENNY

he is bluffing, court would be a civil action, by means of a small claims case, which he would not win mate

If you invoice/receipt said 'sold as seen tested and approved' then you're pretty much covered I believe. Obviously the car has to be 'fit for purpose' but he had understood and approved the problems, right ?

 

I'd guess he probably has a mate who is a lawyer who knocked out the letter for a drink.

Ive been in this situation before he does not have a legal leg to stand on he bought a second hand car from a private owner, did you write out a reciept saying sold as seen????

 

if so then you have nothing to worry about if not then its worth getting a solicitor to send him a reply politley telling him to go take a running jump, also have you sent the log book off as yet??

Thanks for your quick reply's guys.

 

Yes, he was the one who pointed out the problems to me. My partner was actually there while he was going over them with me as we were in my livingroom with a cup of tea. She thinks I'm mad for even responding to his request.

 

The other thing is, none of the things he mentioned acutally affect how the car drives. There is not a problem with it. I live up north and he lives down south. He drove it over 400 miles in the first day! And that was almost 3 months ago!

 

I'm just concered because I've always got on great with people who I've bought or sold things from. I suspect he has either seen somthing else he wants and wants me to give him a refund, or is trying to get the car for a crazy price by scarring me into giving him money to have things done to it.

 

I'd just like the opinion of someone who knows the law or has had the experience of a court claim in a similar situation.

if you never gave him a receipt saying sold as seen he has got some comeback on the sale but only if there are faults found not pointed out in the sale, as he found the faults and agreed at the time of sale i would say he has no come back on you,if it does go to small claims court point out the facts that he found the faults and he never even bid on e bay and made you a offer by email,he wont have a leg to stand on,by how you said he was trying to get the price down when he came to buy the car he is trying his luck to get that money off now hth kev

If you gave him every opportunity to look over the car and was honest about any faults found then he does not have a leg to stand on. He alsao bought it outside of the auction so was a private sale.

 

Provided the car was fit for purpose, i.e fit for the purpose for which it was sold, then you are in the clear.

 

As for the exhaust etc, this would have been evident over a 30 mile test drive so again he had every opportunity to complain. The cert for the alarm is not part of the sale, provided the alarm works.

 

Misrepresentation only works if you said the car has no faults and it turns out to have a serious issue which makes it unfit for purpose.

 

I wouldn't worry but if you get more letters, get a solicitor to send him a letter.

 

I had this issue after selling a car and I got a solicitor to send him a letter, never heard from him again...

I,m with everyone else, when i bought my zed i checked it over for 45mins pointing out the problems to him, i then test drove it and looked at the reciepts he had, we agreed a reduced price and I put down on a receipt sold as seen, tested and inspected. When i had driven it for a while i found problems with it but i didnt call the bloke up and demand money off its a private sale buddy with no warranty i,m afraid he had the opportunity to walk away and even the e-bay list of points on mine were not exactly correct the only way to buy a car is test it and look with your own eyes and if he was that worried he would have called A.A./R.A.C. to inspect it !!! I do understand his frustration but this can happen off a forecourt as well !!!

As has been said above...He has bought outside of EBAY, So therefore has no right to say sold with misrepresentation on advert... And if he after lengthy road test has bought the car 'sold as seen', then this is also usually sufficient to make any claim towards you very hard...

 

More than likely some chancer out to get a quick buck... :mad:

 

Hope all goes well for you mate :)

if the car was bought outside ebay, then its a private sale.

 

as he knew about the faults on the car and even brought others to your attention then you are not liable as he then bought the car knowing that these items were faulty.

 

the car was in effect sold as seen buy the buyer, and the buyer was in agreement to these faults otherwise he would not have bought it.

 

any faults found after purchase are not the responsibility of the seller as the purchasee has to prove these are not faults caused by themselves.

 

if this went to court it could only be a civil action, so nothing to worry about, when at court if it went that far anything he say or you say is purely circumstantial, however the burden of proof will fall on him, also you have a witness being your wife. the judge may see this as a biased witness however when on the stand she has to tell the truth and the judge must them be impartial.

 

the point of fact is that this guy bought the car knowing that it had faults, these faults were not put into your e-bay advert as they were not know to you at the time.

 

also the e-bay advert is not admissable as evidence as it was not bought through ebay, in which case his legal re-course would have been through e-bay.

 

the advert means nothing. the law states that any item bought privatly with faults known by the purchasee are taken as defects and upon purchase are not refundable in costs by the seller unless arranged by both parties and under contract.

 

if there is no reciept, no proof of sale, no written and signed agreements then this person does not have any legal recourse, the item was "sold as seen" defects known.

 

i would go to a solicitor, point out these facts to him and fire another letter off, also pointing out that the advert does not have legal bearing as the car was not bought through e-bay.

 

so to round it off..

 

see solicitor

pay for letter

state that any purchese outside e-bay means any e-bay details are null and void

he knew of faults and pointed new ones out to you

was happy to buy in that condition knowing faults.

knew there may be other problems

 

and that the burden of proof falls on him

 

if it goes to civil court then remember to be precise in the details you give, do not enter into a slanging match, supply all info you have.

 

the judge will rule in your favour trust me on that.

other things to remember.

 

you now have the ability to have the car :

 

a: inspected by aa/rac

b: have an hpi check

c: have a mechanic check

d: buy sold as seen with known faults

 

 

his was option d

 

as he had the opportunity to do the others but chose not to he has no legal recourse.

 

print out what i have typed, take to solicitor and get tis put into a legal letter , he will cite the necessary legal sections reguarding the sale of private goods act.

 

there is no case on the guys part

worth remembering...he ain't gonna go to court as he will have to pay. If he does and you are found in favour, you can claim costs against him so unless he is 100% sure he is gonna win, he will not risk it....

I agree with all that has been said above, he does not have a leg to stand on. Do'nt give him a penny.

Yes, I sent off the log book in october. He would have received the new V5 over a month ago.

 

He asked for a receipt for the car which I wrote for him. I cant remember for certain if I wrote "sold as seen" etc. I will have a look to see if I made a copy for myself.

 

My concern is that if he wanted to be devious he could deny that he saw any of the faults etc and bought it on the basis of the ebay advert alone. But my partner was also there when he mentioned them all to me I suppose.

the things you mention are not any reason for you to give him any money back, saying he can't get insured is something he should have checked out first, which also means he (probably) drove the car home 400 miles with no insurance?

the exhaust was obviously in place when he took the car, so nothing he can do, did you describe the alarm as cat 1 approved?, even if you did the very worst you may, I SAY MAY be obliged to do is get an alarm fitted,

i assume you have his emails stating he knew about the speedo problem, so again he has no comeback, as a few have said if you had misdescibed the car

i.e. car recently passed mot and it was obvious it couldn't have done, then everything else is down to caveat emptor, i wouldnt think any solicitor knowing all the facts would pursue a serious case, its a fishing letter, don't take the BAIT lol

keep records of every email etc he sends, especially those where he admits he knew what he was buying

 

(btw buying outside ebay is not a getout for you, as he bought the car on that description, and would be legally binding IF HE HAD A CASE;) )

thanks very much for all your help so far guys. You are what make this forum what it is.

 

(btw buying outside ebay is not a getout for you, as he bought the car on that description, and would be legally binding IF HE HAD A CASE;) )

 

 

im afraid your wrong there, for the e-bay terms to come into effect the completion of sale would have had to have been through e-bay.

 

You can describe an item for sale and still not list every defect,it is not always possible for the seller to know about every defect on an item such as a vehicle, however, if the buyer then knowingly buys it with known defects that he or she has discovered prior to sale then it is sold as seen with or without a reciept, and accepted in whole by the buyer.

 

under to trade descriptions act you are liable for any item sold that is not fit for the purpose of which it is intended.

 

this car is a second, seconds sold under private agreements are not covered by this, as the seller and buyer entering into a private sale of accord, the terms of which are undertaken by both parties and are not subject to any form of pre advertised contract.

 

the e-bay contract and advertisement are not applicable in this case due to the fact that other problems found with the vehicle were found outside of this contract of sale.

 

so once again and i make this perfectly clear so as not to let this drag on.

 

the e-bay contract is null and void so is the description.

the sale was completed outside of e-bay

the sale is now a private sale

being private it is a verbal agrrement between private parties.

this can only be resolved in a civil case

both parties evidence is circumstantial

e-bay policy clearly states that any sale outside of e-bay is not covered by themselves in any legal matter. (this is the section that makes the advert null and void in any legal case)

 

also the fact that as i posted the buyer had options now to have the car checked and didnt means sold as seen at point of sale, no reciept needed to prove this anymore.

 

so once again to clarify things..

 

THERE IS NO CASE

 

send a letter to this guy through your solicitor

make sure he understands what a civil case will cost and the details i have pointed out, and t hat you have a witness that will state in court that he knowingly and freely bought the car with known defects..

 

thats it

thanks PK1, I'll do just that.

i will look thorugh my uk law books and get the relevant sections for you to cite for your solicitor, he will also know these and be able to look them up.

 

ps: studied uk law for 4 1/2 years.. so i know my stuff... also ex R.M.P

Thats GREAT. Thanks very much.

with reguards to the alarm, he could of got the model number, serial and emailed the manufacturers and they would of happily faxed him a letterhead stating its thatcham catagory free. I had to have this done for my frontera, vauxhaull gladly faxed me a letterheaded catagory statement/certificate.

 

as for the exhaust he can change it if its too loud..

 

you have his emails print them out go to your solicitor and do as i said.. thats it and he will soon dissapear..

 

if not let him take you to court, and then present your case, i doubt he could afford to take you to court.

who mentioned ebay terms??

it was an advert for all the world to see, same way this forum is

IF the car was misdescribed, i didn't mention points NOT advertised, it matters not where it was advertised,

it was a private sale, so less of a comeback, and notice i said IF HE HAD A CASE, if he advertised the car as just passed an mot and then found there was no floor then that is misdescription wherever advertised,

(but obviously by the tone of your post none of us should have bothered answering)

the tone of my post???

 

jesus sit down and have a drink.

 

im trying to help this member in a clear and concise manner in purlely legal terms. In doing this i am assuring him that he has nothing to worry about.

 

and as per your last section of your post

 

btw buying outside ebay is not a getout for you, as he bought the car on that description, and would be legally binding.

 

he may have bought the car on that description however that description is a contract point of sale and can only be reffered to in a court of law if that is used as the point of sale. that is all i am trying to get over here.

 

 

this guy is relying on the e-bay description as his main defence in this matter, all i am saying is it is not applicable in this matter.

and that the statement you added may have been misconstrued by the member.

 

all input no-matter by who is always welcomed, but on matters legal i will help anyone where i can and i will correct details where needed, and this in no-means reflects on other members opinions or comments. and does not mean i place myself above other members.

 

i am just a member offering substantiated legal advice to the best of my ability

and by the way!!!!! happy new year..

Thanks for your quick reply's guys.

 

Yes, he was the one who pointed out the problems to me. My partner was actually there while he was going over them with me as we were in my livingroom with a cup of tea. She thinks I'm mad for even responding to his request.

 

The other thing is, none of the things he mentioned acutally affect how the car drives. There is not a problem with it. I live up north and he lives down south. He drove it over 400 miles in the first day! And that was almost 3 months ago!

 

I'm just concered because I've always got on great with people who I've bought or sold things from. I suspect he has either seen somthing else he wants and wants me to give him a refund, or is trying to get the car for a crazy price by scarring me into giving him money to have things done to it.

 

I'd just like the opinion of someone who knows the law or has had the experience of a court claim in a similar situation.

 

 

As I see it you have already given him £1000 off the asking price and you can prove that by your bids on ebay. So you can use that in your defence.

HTH as posted above you took £1K off the price on ebay but as he has had the vehicle for three months it was obviously sold fit for the purpose it was bought for so i very much dont think has a case to answer too but as PK1 saiys he studied law for 4-1/2 years i would tell the bloke to take you to court i dont think you would hear from him again