He he he he wow is all i can say.

A: Launch controll will fry your clutch in 2 secs flat.

B: Definatly sounds like A misfiring Boing 747 when i pull away.

C: It is the first time on public roads i have been airborn

d: Andrew my passenger seat is Wet???

 

The only thign is i did not get the connector to plug it into the laptop or do the diagnostics ????

owwwwwwww, you lot make me jealous, i NEED to have a ride in one of these TC'd Z's

Warren,

You need to get that config checked. When I first set-up Tim's it worked but the cut was really harsh, it should be almost imperceptable. Turned out that the config on the box was completely wrong - you should verify yours to make sure it's behaving as designed.

I need to get my front ABS sensor fixed so I dont get bad signals and misfire all the time

wazza.. you like ? you like ?

 

For the clutch I'm running a Centreforce Dual Friction Pressure Plate with a custom 4 puck sprung hub, kevlar pucks one side, ceramic the other. Has held on for nearly a year with repeated launches, nice and light to drive too.

 

I fried my last clutch the first time I pressed the green button. Had a mate in the car and we got halfway through the launch both were cracking up laughing (the manical kind) then the engine revs skyrocketed as the clutch let go. Bugger.

 

Just one word of warning, like a couple of people myself included you'll keep pushing in the wet until eventually you breach the tyres' lateral grip limit in which case you better not be heading towards a parked car as I was (dunno how the hell I saved my ass but I corrected and caught it within inches of said parked car...)

 

Now try the launch control in a wet carpark for some fun.. leave the tail out as it's trying to get traction, childish but good fun

 

Kiwi are you Rowan or Ronan? I like you my friend...you're a nice nutter with Z madness well and truly implanted! TOP BLOKE!

 

Warren mate, trust me, or should I say...trust Mr. P...you need to get that checked out.

 

Andy plugged the Laptop into mine after he'd scared the arse off me, you see we weren't that lucky to have a supermarket car park to arse around in that day! Nooooo, we just had an industrial estate with lovely walls and that nastey shiney road surface stuff that makes yer Z behave like Jane "I'm a lard arsed, pig faced cow!" Torville on acid etc.

 

Anyway, not good and the Soup guys are probably the best to ask for more detail about this. It had learned mine to 4 cyl mode...WTF?

 

We spent quite a while trying to get it to learn anything at all, mongul TC is mine evidently!!! LOL

 

But when Andy got it going the cut was well harsh. Whole car was shaking, not good as proved when Andy checked it.

 

I need to re-teach mine, but when it comes back usual story...que blah blah blah...moan moan...whinge...wine...f'ing Z's etc. etc.

 

 

P.S. how much did they charge you? Told you to let Andy do it!

 

[This message has been edited by Timmy_Turbo (edited 04-12-2001).]

we calibrated and checked it, no probs.

 

Today i shall be doing some serious roundabout action lol.

 

Kiwi, i have a dule centreforce clutch and it has just not lasted.

Timmy.. I'm a Rowan, I'd be pretty pissed off if I was born Ronan.. get associated with Ronan Keating (cue Shudder). Thanks for the compliment tho If you want to know what nuts is wait till I unveil my new project in a few months, unfortunately nothing to do with Zs.. but a power:weight ratio that'll leave you in awe And it's going to have a lot to do with the Targa of New Zealand but 8mths to prep a car from wo to go is a hard ask .. we'll see

 

Wazza.. if you've still got your Centreforce get a replacement plate like the one I described made up. Cost around 500NZD (so maybe 170gbp by the time shipping is included?). Centreforces are really finnicky on adjustment though

 

Rowan (not Ronan!)

 

as ever you are my saviour rowan ronan keeting ??

your famous dude

Tim,

The only thing the car learns is which wheel is which, the rest of the config is set by the factory (or me in the case of yours!)

 

Who was it who said you can configure the TC to shoot flames out of the exhaust ? I've been thinking about that and I can't decide how that would work - it's cuts the fuel after all, so there'll be nothing to burn .... Any ideas ???? (and no, I'm not considering doing it)

andy.. not entirely true about the cutting fuel.. it cuts approx 50% of the injector pulse, so only half the fuel gets through that is needed for a proper burn. Thus it misfires, and dumps a little raw fuel out the exhaust, which is why if you get it just right you can bet a big pop..womppphaa... on the 1st to 2nd change if you hit the tcs right close to the limiter in 1st... now I too heard about that flames business. What would happen if you sequenced the cuts so they occured starting from back cyls forward sequentially..hmnmm.. might be one way of doing it.

 

Rowan

Andy,

 

I'm guessing a bit but I believe that the Racelogic TC can be changed to do a spark cut rather than a fuel cut. This would allow unburnt fuel through to the heat of the turbos & cats and perhaps that would lead to flames.

 

However, I believe that the downside is that unburnt fuel is very effective at cleaning the film of oil from inside the bores of the cylinders therefore increasing wear. Haven't a clue of how bad this is in practice but the theory seems sound.

 

D

 

Originally posted by kiwi_z:

andy.. not entirely true about the cutting fuel.. it cuts approx 50% of the injector pulse, so only half the fuel gets through that is needed for a proper burn. Thus it misfires, and dumps a little raw fuel out the exhaust, Rowan

 

are you sure about this Rowan ?

 

my understanding of it says that the TC cuts the injector pulse, period.

 

if it only cuts 50% then you have a lot of lean burn events.. not good, might even get detonation

 

if it cut the spark, then you would get heavy unburnt fuel... and bore wash, which is why they cut the fuel, but it has to cut 100% to be "safe" surely ?

My theory was along the lines of Hairsy's, but I was interested in seeing what you guys thought.

Quote from Racelogic

"The idea of cutting fuel to an engine sets alarm bells ringing in engine builders, as they all know of the potential disaster of a high revving race engine running lean. Running in a lean combustion mode will elevate in-cylinder temperatures very rapidly, the denser the air/fuel charge, the more heat the lean burn can generate. Therefore it is vital that a fuel cut system will not cause a lean burn.

 

The simplest way of preventing a lean burn is to remove more than 50% of the fuel from the pulsed delivery. A mixture will only ignite if the air/fuel ratio is within a tightly defined window, look at the efforts being put into making lean burn engines fire on very low air/fuel ratios (1:20 or more). Removing more than 50% of the fuel will cause an air fuel ratio of over 1:25 and will result in a complete miss-fire, with the unburned fuel passing out through the exhaust valve. Even if a high air/fuel ratio did manage to ignite, the energy available from the amount of petrol injected wouldn't be enough to elevate temperatures significantly. Of course the ideal system will remove 100% of the pulsed fuel delivery, allowing the cylinder to take a gulp of fresh air, and the in-cylinder temperature would remain virtually unaffected.

 

Prolonged fuel cut on one particular cylinder would cause scavenging of the petrol lining the inlet tracts, and when the next full fuel pulse arrived, it would be partially reduced in quantity by the re-wetting of these tracts. Therefore it is often important to manage a rotation of the cylinder cutting to prevent this situation from occurring."

 

 

So it doesn't actually say that it's 50% or 100%... I'm sure it's the 50%.. either way I haven't blown up my engine yet but I've tried.. trust me I've tried

 

 

As I understand the amount that gets cut off is dependent on the slip setting you have it on. For the 20% slip, more fuel is put in to, lets call it the misfire cylinder, than the than it would if it was on wet 0% slip. This is how the controled slip is made. The TC detects the wheel spin and still puts enough fuel in the misfire cylinder to maintain the slip and not increase it. If the slip increases, less fuel is put in, if it drops, more is put in.

This is how I understand it works.

I dont think that a system that should cos £1000 just detects spin from the ABS and then just misfires when it does. I think the TC calculates the amount of slip then puts the amount fuel need to, maintain slip, decrease slip.

People who have it know when its on wet and you do a big spin, the car jolts quite a lot when the misfire comes in. But you put it on 20% and drift around a corner, it just feels like the car is hesitating.

 

Stuart

If you look at the config the only part that's changed are the number of cylinders that are cut. Working on the basis that the engine is turning fairly fast you can drop a few power strokes and hardly notice it. I'm pretty certain it doesn't vary the amount of fuel to work out how much power to generate, the ECU would have a tough time doing that, let alone a box that just interrupts the signal to the injectors.

 

BTW it doesn't cost £1000, it sells for £1000. Subtle difference, think not about the cost of the parts but the value they bring (and the cost of development).

 

Also, mine doesn't jolt at all, it's very smooth, sometimes you don't even notice it until afterwards you think "my god I'm getting good!"

Having just this moment returned from calibrating Shabir`s car I must say how impressed I am by the soft cut, almost undetectable!The most impressive though is the wet island power around with the TC on and its like its dry and the cut again very very soft.Did some wet line starts (not launch) and found 20% just right amount for the conditions, without TC was spin city!!.

 

Jeff TT

Just being devils advocate here, I wont be getting TC, I think its a good idea, but insurance might be a problem. Does anyone worry about the damage the misfire does to the engine? I mean, surely it cant be 100% safe? This is just related to F1 you understand as they brought TC in this year, they cut the fuel to cause a misfire, but they get engine blowups because of the stress it puts the engine under, Honda do it differently and control the accelerator, not the fuel. Now I'm not for a minute suggesting your engine are gonna blow. But you dont get something for nothing. It will be interesting to see how your engines are in say 1-2 years from now. Could be wrong, time will tell. But would you drive your car if it misfired like TC makes it do? You wouldnt drive it slowly, let alone have it near the redline....

 

Feel free to rip this apart - I'm expecting it!!!!

It costs us £1000,

It prob costs Racing Logic about £30 to make. Few wires and a programmable eprom.

The development of it prob cost millions, to make sure it works with many different cars and what not.

Like the Intel Pentium 4 costs about £2 to make, but it took billions to design it.

 

Stuart

bilky, i dont think you can compare this lot to be honest.

An f1 engine is only designed to last about 300miles.

The are looking for 1 millionth of a second we arnt.

I really like it set at 20% on .9 bar boost i get into lovley drift, wicked fun.

All i can say is this has made me drive like a lunatic

reliability.. I've had mine for well over a year now and nothing (repeat nothing) bad has happened to my car. My motto is "a drive isn't a drive without hitting the tcs cuts".. I daily drive probably 25min each way to/from work with heaps of corners and have fun at lunch time, probably gain 20min or so.. so thats a LOT of miles.

 

It is not damaging in any way shape or form. How can it ? You can not compare it to F1 systems, the F1 engines are on the brink of blowing up, the TCS blowups have been through the development of the systems, so they will be doing all sorts of weird and wonderful things to extract the maximum potential out of them.

 

EVERYONE from plebs to one of my good mates who's a bit of a Race Driver have been absolutely stunned by the system.

 

If you don't get something for nothing what about air intakes ? Chips (without boost jets some slightly improve off boost engine response), better exhausts ?

 

Technology - it's a wonderful thing.

 

Rowan

 

Originally posted by SRRAE:

It costs us £1000,

It prob costs Racing Logic about £30 to make. Few wires and a programmable eprom.

The development of it prob cost millions, to make sure it works with many different cars and what not.

Like the Intel Pentium 4 costs about £2 to make, but it took billions to design it.

 

Stuart

 

If it is just a EPROM & circuit board, surely it shouldn't be that hard to copy it (for a lot less $$$)?

 

Jay

 

I think that I over simplified things to much. There will be more than just that. By the basics it just will be some sort of reprogramable chip and a a few other chips. If you think of it all it needs is 5 inputs, RMP and each wheel and a small program that says if wheel speed 1,2,3,4 arnt equal, cut fuel by 20%.

Again I have slimplified things again.

 

Stuart

Regarding the fuel cut debate I just checked the manual and it says "When wheelspin is detected the Traction Control shuts down each fuel injector independently reducing the power of the engine progressively"

 

And going back to Warrens comment of earlier. How did you check the configuration if you didn't have the RS232 lead ? It can only be done through a PC. I posted mine in the Tech Sec, if you want to compare.

i loaded it up today on lap top and all my settinGs were 100% save afew minor.

Andyp i changed to your sugestions and it seems different.

I will need to play around some more i think as i have a few wierd things happen.