Anyone tell me what the cheapest options are for repairing leaky turbo seals?

I hear that I might as well get the turbos re-done or replaced at the same time and I was wondering what the options might be without spending a fortune.

 

All helpful suggestions welcome.

Anyone tell me what the cheapest options are for repairing leaky turbo seals?

I hear that I might as well get the turbos re-done or replaced at the same time and I was wondering what the options might be without spending a fortune.

 

All helpful suggestions welcome.

Nigel , my advice for what its worth would be to take the car to someone that will supply and fit the turbos that way you will have no issues if the turbos go wrong , I have just got my car back from SE having had 360 degree thrust bearing tubs fitted, and to be honest I am very happy with the tubs and the service received from SE , even after a few little issues which were sorted out very quickly and proffesionally by SE

http://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=29089&referrerid=119

 

http://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=29120&referrerid=119

 

 

Seeing as your the 3rd person in 2 days, these should be of great use.

smithy

http://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=29120&referrerid=119http://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=29089&referrerid=119

 

Seeing as your the 3rd person in 2 days, these should be of great use.

smithy

Smithy I presume that if your turbos break , you cover the costs of replacing the turbos (within the warranty period), along with the engine removal and refit costs ????

IF turbos are proved to be 100% at fault, then no expense is down to cutomer. There is an old member round here somewhere who can confirm that for me. Fortunately it's only happened once out of over 30 sets that a turbo has gone back and it proved to be oil starvation through blockage rather than turbo actually failing, but yes i took care of it. Some of the tubs i've sold here are over 3 1/2 years old now and de-catted. what do SE do to prevent future problems with de-catted Zeds mate ??

Do a serach and you'l see a number of posts of other companies tubs going after a very short peroid of time or few miles once de-catted, Cheapness is not something that should be considered with these kinda things imo

cheers

smithy

IF turbos are proved to be 100% at fault, then no expense is down to cutomer. There is an old member round here somewhere who can confirm that for me. Fortunately it's only happened once out of over 30 sets that a turbo has gone back and it proved to be oil starvation through blockage rather than turbo actually failing, but yes i took care of it. Some of the tubs i've sold here are over 3 1/2 years old now and de-catted. what do SE do to prevent future problems with de-catted Zeds mate ??

Do a serach and you'l see a number of posts of other companies tubs going after a very short peroid of time or few miles once de-catted, Cheapness is not something that should be considered with these kinda things imo

cheers

smithy

Okeydokey , I just know most companies will not pay for the refit of faulty turbos so good on yer. regards "what do SE do to prevent future problems with de-catted Zeds mate ??" I f the car is running correctly with the right amount of crankcase pressure then the stagger gap is not required , all that does is hide other issues that are potentially there.

 

Ryan

No probs mate. Don't forget though the Zeds breathing system does rely on quite a decent level of back pressure to keep the rear piston ring sealed, it's de-catting that dramatically reduces this pressure in this just as important area. The fact that over 80% of Zeds that de-catt soon have this problem pretty much confirms this point.

Think Nige has got plenty to read now anyways, lol

smithy

Smithy, I had a quick look on your site first, before posting.

I guess I was hoping there may be a less expensive solution (I notice one person suggests replacing the cats, but is that closing the gate after the horse....?).

Can you cut through the techno-stuff on your site and explain - is the cheaper option a replacement 'stock' turbo, or is it an improvement on the Nissan version? and IF I decide to go for higher than stock boost do I need to look at the more expensive turbos?

Yes you can replace the cats if you like though doubtful if it will prove much effect as it's like uneven tyre wear, once started it will continue no matter if you do the tracking, so replacing cats may slow down the effect but nowt else.

on my site i only list hybrids, only ever had 1 customer buy stock ones, the stocks are about 50 quid a turbo less, hybrids allow more boost, operate more efficiently and allow the potential more of any mods you've done or likely to do, you or next owner so good selling point too, when time comes of course.

hope this helps mate

smithy

Yes, all helps, but I know I still have much to learn, so I hope that you'll bear with me through this painful time!

 

Can you explain, what might make me choose the expensive turbos over the cheaper option? - is it about ultimate BHP, or is there more to it than that?

What I really want is a FAST (OBVIOUSLY), but reliable everyday car. My preference would be for quick response rather than huge ultimate power (with greater turbo lag and strain on other engine components), but I don't want to be back here repalcing turbos for a few more years if that's ok!

Smithy, as I am too in the situation where my tubs have to be reconditioned or replaced, can you explain briefly what advantages in terms of power and response the Stage 1-2 hybrids have?

Breifly mate, yer stock tubs start to run out of puff the older/used/worn they become at the higher end of bhp, if yer doing any mods to the car you will if using hybrids release more of their potential, the stage 1's are pertty much ample for the vast marority who want to tune the zed without going over the top, i.e induction/de-catt/Zorst/chip and boost upgrade. These are certainly the most popular with 80% of sales at this spec. Stage 2-3 Hybrids are stronger again and able to run even higher boost levels, being bigger than the other ones means new turbo pipes required ( which i now sell) Roller bearing means very quick spool up as well, it's a cross hybread t25/t28 meaning 90% parts of T28 the remaining T25, so for those wanting to go a lot further than above in terms of bhp but without the lag a normal T28 would have with it, so in short unless your planning many mods above those listed above the stage 1-2's are ideal, more planned power ? then the next stage up as explained is best coupled with no lag on them, makes em very quick turbo's ;)

cheers

smithy

Smithy, this is all very useful stuff, thanks for taking the time.

 

So, if we had two identical cars with zorst, de-catt, chip and induction (like mine!) and fitted stage 1 tubs to one and stage 2-3 to the other, then set them up to identical boost levels....they would perform the same, except for faster spool up on the stage 2-3s? (Cause I suppose that for reliability the stronger turbo will be under much less stress than the little one at similar boost levels?)

 

Now I know my next question is down to personal opinion, but what level of boost do the stage 1's go up to? (regardless of the other car components?) - ie if I fitted stage 1s and then upgraded the intercoolers, pistons, etc.....at what point would I have to fit the stage 2-3s?

Yes mate the car with stage 2's would pull as quick as the other car, but higher up the rev range would pull away and leave the other car behind. If you were someone thinking of pistons and other mods, then yer at the level of wanting alot more power so best get the stage 2's 1st, i did just that and ran them on a stock engine ( except some elecy gizmo's) for past 2 years, car was very very torquey. That was until Thor when excessive oil pressure blew all the seals in engine and turbo's :cry:

With labour costs of at least 700 quid and upwards, plan now and save money and time in future, if yer fairly adamant the upgrades you listed are what you may stick with apart from any electronic's, I/C/s and mapping, then just the stage 1-2's are ample. I knew one day i'd want more from the engine, hence getting the turbo's then to suit.

cheers

smithy

I'm not sure form your last post, what blew the seals? Was this down to the fact that you had stage 2 tubs on a stock engine? - surely thay would have been fine, just underworked? - but if you're suggesting that it's only when I go for piston upgrades that stage 2's become 'necessary, then I think I'm likely to stick with stage 1's.

So what boost level would you consider the stage 1's good for? - and would an IC upgrade be one step too far for stage 1's?

 

PS - I'm going to buy some turbos at the end of this process - honest!

The oil problem on Smithys car was caused by overfilling. As soon as the car reached 4k rpm the oil pressure went through the roof and blew all the seals in the turbos - and possibly some on the engine itself. Despite the car losing at least a sump full of oil so far, there is STILL oil registering on the dipstick! Thats how I know it was overfilled lol. There was actually oil dripping from the tailpipes :eek:

 

You DON'T need forged pistons to run the stage 2/3 turbos at their normal boost range. ICs would deffo be advisable but with a good ecu tune you'll be seeing a good 17psi every day. If this aint enough then go to larger injectors and run at say 20psi :) If a piston DOES go, just replace them then :D

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

Gees i bloody hope so mate :)

I/C's in my opinion really should be very next on yer shopping list mate regardless of what turbo's you use, yer up there as reagards intake temps.

The stage 2's give sheer torque and are quite usefull even at your level but with the additional cost you just gotta decide will you ever mod the engine further to release their full potential. Both turbo's are easily capable of far higher than stock boost, but you really only want to go higher than say 14psi if uprgraded I/C's are present and correct fueling.

As regards mine, main cause was day before an oil change took place using far thinner than normal oil whilst at the same time it looks like it was seriously overfilled causing very excessive oil pressure which just blew seals all over the gaff :cry: only good thinh is that further mods were planned for next monthm, these have now come forward :dance:

cheers

smithy

Gees i bloody hope so mate :)

 

As regards mine, main cause was day before an oil change took place using far thinner than normal oil whilst at the same time it looks like it was seriously overfilled causing very excessive oil pressure which just blew seals all over the gaff :cry: only good thinh is that further mods were planned for next monthm, these have now come forward :dance:

cheers

smithy

 

Smithy,is this guy aware of the damage he has caused by overfilling the oil?

My head is telling me that running it below full capacity would be very sensible as it will prolong the life span of whatever turbos I fit. Yet deep down I know that I really need a boost controller and the ability to make scoobydoo owners cry on the hard shoulder MUST NOT BE IGNORED!

- but I could do this with ease when I had 15psi!, so no problem there! I guess the controller would just give that additional peace of mind.

 

So it sounds like stage 1s for me, a set of Intercoolers, a boost controller (oh and then there's the the new rear spoiler and the brake upgrade. mmmm

 

Will I get change out of £5k for all that!!

dont forget divorced flanged downpipes :dance: :hyper:

dont forget divorced flanged downpipes :dance: :hyper:

 

Paul, you're so right, would I ever, I mean, who could, they're so important and all that.

 

I just have one small question...

 

wtf are divorced flanged downpipes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They are actually DIVORCED WASTEGATE downpipes :p :D Dead simple really - but only if you know how a turbo works lol.

 

They basically have two downpipes on one flange, one for the turbine exit and one for the wastegate exit, with a seperator between the two. The theory is that once the wastegate starts to open, as it mixes with the exhaust from the turbine, turbulence is created which restricts the flow and increases back pressure on the engine, in turn decreasing power. The divorced wastegate dump pipes keep both circuits seperate until the cat pipes to avoid this turbulence...

 

HTH

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

They are actually DIVORCED WASTEGATE downpipes :p :D Dead simple really - but only if you know how a turbo works lol.

 

They basically have two downpipes on one flange, one for the turbine exit and one for the wastegate exit, with a seperator between the two. The theory is that once the wastegate starts to open, as it mixes with the exhaust from the turbine, turbulence is created which restricts the flow and increases back pressure on the engine, in turn decreasing power. The divorced wastegate dump pipes keep both circuits seperate until the cat pipes to avoid this turbulence...

 

HTH

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

 

I bet your still none the wiser are you Nigel :)

I bet your still none the wiser are you Nigel :)

 

LOL!! they make the car quicker ;) :D

No I understood completely! - It's a while ago now, but I did pass 5 A levels and 2 degrees in my day! - so I like to think I can follow a well explained argument.

 

SO, how does all of this turbulence (or lack of it) affect back pressure, being as I have a de-catted exhaust? (Plus I understand Smithy's tubs have some kind of valve at the back to assist with pressure balance?)

 

Maybe this thread could be edited into an FAQ on turbo upgrades??

 

SO, how does all of this turbulence (or lack of it) affect back pressure, being as I have a de-catted exhaust? (Plus I understand Smithy's tubs have some kind of valve at the back to assist with pressure balance?)

 

 

it will reduce it more, back pressure is not good, what we want is good FLOW, this it what these provide, a smooth flow of gasses