I think it is the best mod I have put on my car.

 

Usually I had to make an effort to make it come on in the dry, wet was easier but still needed some doing.

 

Now that my car is chipped and the boost increased its working over time. Driving to and from Manchester in the rain down the East Lancs, I thought I would have a little fun on the many traffic lights. Having the Traction Control set to wet, I pulled from the lights quite fast with the accelerator about half way down, 1st gear was impossible so I changed to 2nd very soon and pressed the accelerator about half way again. The revs quickly went up and then about 4000rpm when the turbos are going fully, the wheels started spinning and the Traction Control worked it's magic, but the revs wouldnt climb because as soon as the wheels got traction and the Traction Control stopped interveening, the wheels would spin again. Its the turbos fault that is.

 

Also today down a national speedlimit single lane road I got stuck behind a car driving at 30mph and going round corners at 25 which are normally corners you dont slow down on. So I put it in 2nd and waited for a part of the road where I can see that nothing is coming, which is a long suttle right hand curve. It came and again I pressed the accelerator down about half way and started to pass. The revs got to about 4000rpm again fine and was still climbing when I hit a puddle. Because I was turning and accelerating at the same time when I hit the puddle, the wheels spun and the back end felt like it was going to kick out into the bushes, but even before I knew what was happening, the Traction Control worked its wonders controlling the wheel spin until I was out the puddle and I just carried on my way.

 

From inside the car all I heard was the engine popping and a very slight twich from the rear. It was only until a few seconds later that I realised that the Traction Control actually stopped the back end kicking out big time, and personally I dont think I was pushing my car hard.

 

This is the 2nd time that I think the Traction Control has my car from going into the scenery, saving my car and probably my life.

 

If you dont have it, get it!!!!!

 

 

Stuart

Group buy on Racelogic TC? (I take it yours is Racelogic). I'm gutted I missed out on a group buy a while ago - I remember the price was stupid-cheap. Didn't have a car for it to go in at the time :rolleyes:

 

Devils advocate says: isn't your TC just teaching you to drive less carefully (like spell chequers don't improve your spelling)?

No I dont think it does. The 2 times which it has occured and I wasnt expecting it I dont think I was pushing it. The first time was on Black Ice and I was doing less than 40mph because it was cold, but a water mains birst and created a big puddle which froze.

 

Today I wasnt trying to make the Traction come on, infact I was being very carful because it was wet and the road is quite narrow.

 

You could say the same thing about ABS. ABS does not make you stop quicker, if you dont lock up you will stop sooner than if you did and use the ABS. BUt does ABS make people worse drivers?

 

Stuart

Originally posted by 51x

Group buy on Racelogic TC? (I take it yours is Racelogic). I'm gutted I missed out on a group buy a while ago - I remember the price was stupid-cheap. Didn't have a car for it to go in at the time :rolleyes:

 

Devils advocate says: isn't your TC just teaching you to drive less carefully (like spell chequers don't improve your spelling)?

 

 

Can we get a list of all the TC and go from there, i'd be up for it :)

There already is a group buy going on: http://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23992 :rolleyes: :D

Hey, I'm not arguing here... I think TC is probably rather good. I like the idea you can get a programmed drift on. And ABS too - a very useful safety feature.

 

But ;) (where's the smiley with the devil-horns?) if you get used to driving a car with TC, or ABS for that matter, what's gonna happen when you drive something that doesn't have these features? A driver that's not in a panic can do what ABS does... as long as they know what they should be doing. If you only ever get into these cr*ppy situations and the car sorts the problem out for you, you don't learn what to do. I s'pose the same goes for any kind of driver assistance - I've seen people drive like complete tits on the track in big'ole BM's with lots of helpful gadgets and they don't get into any (real) trouble. Stick them in a proper car and they'd be off at the first bend :)

Originally posted by Dave Marley

There already is a group buy going on

Blinkin' flip... I really ought to check the for sale section more often! Still got no car to put it in yet, but not long now.

Originally posted by 51x

Hey, I'm not arguing here... I think TC is probably rather good. I like the idea you can get a programmed drift on. And ABS too - a very useful safety feature.

 

But ;) (where's the smiley with the devil-horns?) if you get used to driving a car with TC, or ABS for that matter, what's gonna happen when you drive something that doesn't have these features? A driver that's not in a panic can do what ABS does... as long as they know what they should be doing. If you only ever get into these cr*ppy situations and the car sorts the problem out for you, you don't learn what to do. I s'pose the same goes for any kind of driver assistance - I've seen people drive like complete tits on the track in big'ole BM's with lots of helpful gadgets and they don't get into any (real) trouble. Stick them in a proper car and they'd be off at the first bend :)

 

 

I completely agree with all this but ( :tongue: ) during the learning process above you could well write off your Zed and injure someone / yourself due to the power and speeds involved.

 

I too am considering the merits and considering how much I get my arse out now it may well be a good idea for when the boost goes up!

 

hmm....

Originally posted by 51x

But ;) (where's the smiley with the devil-horns?) if you get used to driving a car with TC, or ABS for that matter, what's gonna happen when you drive something that doesn't have these features?

 

You crash it just like you would if you never had Traction Control in the first place :D.

 

I usually drive with mine off ot at 20% slip and I only get the arse out when I want to.

 

But there has only been 1 time that it came out and I wasn't expecting it. I also had it on 20% slip, but I got it straight again before the TC even kicked in.

Originally posted by SMW1

I usually drive with mine off ot at 20% slip and I only get the arse out when I want to.

 

If I got it I'd probably do the same, then turn it on in the wet so I can actually accelerate!!

Who else makes a decent TC then, i've seen a few models out there but everyone seems to jump on the RLTC system. Call me picky but i'd like to see what other companys have to offer as well.

I think everyone goes for Racelogic TC because it works, and everyone who's got it keeps going on about how good it is ;)

 

I'm still in two minds about getting one. It looks what you're saying Stu (smw1) is that you've got it there but don't really use it, and the time you needed it you saved yourself anyway. I'm kinda thinking: if I had it I'd be tempted to do things I'd normally know I shouldn't. I.e. it'd make me a worse driver because I'd expect the technology to save me. Yet, if I could forget it was there, maybe I'd drive exactly the same until the one time I got it a bit wrong and it helped me out.

 

I dunno. I don't drive like a lunatic or anything, but I can appreciate a patch of black ice might f*ck you up big time.

But if you have the attitude of more technolgy makes you drive worse,

 

Take off your HICAS, disable your ABS, put Ford suspention on, go and put the cheapest tyres you can find on, drive car with a carb not an injection, drive a car with no ECU, get rid of of the speed related power steering, remove the cruise control, dont drive an automatic, get rid of the LSD.

 

All of these are highly technical parts of a car and either make the car run better of make them safer. Traction Control does not increase the cost of your performance because it is reconised as a safty device and not performance.

 

You cant tell me that you have NEVER wheel spun the rear wheels on your Z? I used to do it so easily when I was pulling out of junctions on a wet day. Sometimes you have to hurry up because of the traffic, but lots of power, wide tyres, wet road and turning shapely is a good recipe for lighting up the rear wheels. No matter how carful I was most of the time would result in a wheel spin of some description. But with the traction control I know that if the wheels do spin, it can react a lot quicker than I can.

It doesnt mean that you can just rely on it all the time. Your natrual reaction when you feel something happening is to correct it, but the traction control can detect the spin in a 50th of a second and instantly do something about it, way before a driver will notice anything wrong. A few times I have turned it off and forgot that I did and when something happens I have corrected it automatically as a natural reaction. If I was expecting the TC do fix the problem I would have not done anything and probably hit the barrier, but I did react. However, in the 3 tenths of a second it would take some one to realise somthing was happening, and then another tenth of a second to react and then another 2 tenths of a second it takes for me to release the throttle and then engine to actual power down, over half a second has gone. The TC litterally stalls the engine so the power cut is instant.

 

This reply is a little long isnt it ;)

 

Stuart

I don't have traction and I don't 'go mad' in the wet. IMHO traction would give you a false sense of security and give you the impression that you can floor it at any speed in the wet. If you take a corner too quickly in the wet your TC won't save you from spinning off.

Better to err on the side of caution than killing someone. :rolleyes:

 

Dave

Originally posted by 51x

I think everyone goes for Racelogic TC because it works, and everyone who's got it keeps going on about how good it is ;)

 

I'm still in two minds about getting one. It looks what you're saying Stu (smw1) is that you've got it there but don't really use it, and the time you needed it you saved yourself anyway. I'm kinda thinking: if I had it I'd be tempted to do things I'd normally know I shouldn't. I.e. it'd make me a worse driver because I'd expect the technology to save me. Yet, if I could forget it was there, maybe I'd drive exactly the same until the one time I got it a bit wrong and it helped me out.

 

I dunno. I don't drive like a lunatic or anything, but I can appreciate a patch of black ice might f*ck you up big time.

 

Well not every one has a motor bike license, an advance driving license and a stage 1 racing drivers license :D. At the end of the day id you loose the back you either loose it completely or you compensate the snake and pull it back straight. There's a fine line :D.

 

But Traction control makes that line just that little bit thicker :D

Originally posted by SRRAE

You cant tell me that you have NEVER wheel spun the rear wheels on your Z? I used to do it so easily when I was pulling out of junctions on a wet day. Sometimes you have to hurry up because of the traffic, but lots of power, wide tyres, wet road and turning shapely is a good recipe for lighting up the rear wheels.

I've had my car 5 years and, with the exception of the first winter on japanese rubber, I can honestly say that I've been caught out with the back end stepping out twice. Both times I caught the slide and it hasn't happened for a long time now.

 

Obviously I've spun the wheels on purpose many more times than that, drifting off roundabouts, etc, but that's the fun of a RWD car. Where's the skill in having the TC system control it for you? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Dave Marley

Where's the skill in having the TC system control it for you? :rolleyes:

 

there is no skill it's saftey.

 

I mean look at PAul C. He can drive, but he got caught out and totalled his car.

 

It does happen to the best of us mate, I persoanlly use TC to take control after it goes beyond my control it you know what I mean.

 

Personally I think I'm an above average driver. I've driven cars for a long time, raced them, riden Bikes and raced them, but they can still take you by surprise and although 80% of the time you are good enough to correct your mistakes 20% of the time you are not but TC is :D.

Originally posted by SMW1

there is no skill it's saftey.

 

I mean look at PAul C. He can drive, but he got caught out and totalled his car.

 

It does happen to the best of us mate, I persoanlly use TC to take control after it goes beyond my control it you know what I mean.

True. I hope I appreciate the irony if I wrap it round a tree tomorrow! ;)

 

Personally I think I'm an above average driver.

I think we all are! :D

 

I've driven cars for a long time, raced them, riden Bikes and raced them, but they can still take you by surprise and although 80% of the time you are good enough to correct your mistakes 20% of the time you are not but TC is :D.

I can see this from both sides: the one that says that it makes you safer as it prevents some sorts of accident and the other (which seems to be the one that the insurance companies believe) which says that if you have TC, you'll take risks you wouldn't otherwise, safe in the knowledge that the TC will save you. It may.

OK, I think maybe there's a bit of a difference between /totally/ relying on invasive technology (and becoming a cr*p driver) and driving your car as hard as you normally would and being saved (possibly) occassionally. These guys I was talking about - my mate will tell you - they hate turning off their gadgets because: "the car's all over the place, man!".

 

There's a big difference between a system that steps in and tries to correct your mistake, and technology like an ECU, power steering or decent suspension... these things are there all the time. ABS - I can see why you might want to remove it, especially with big brakes because the ABS controller could get confused by how fast the wheels are slowing down (must be in a skid!).

 

It's not like I'm saying: if you've got TC you must be a cr*p driver! Far from it. It could be a safety net... but (horns) some people don't like that. In the same respect, some people snowboard without protective headwear (that would be me then) and will most likely get caught out and have some sort of concussion (yeah, in my case, a bit too frequently). But that's part of the fun - having respect for the danger. Driving a 300 (wrecklessly?) can be exceptionally dangerous but we all knew that when we bought one. If we'd wanted something safe we'd all be driving Volvos. From what I remember of my 300 (it's been sooooo long) I had a healthy respect for what it could do. Maybe I was overly cautious driving it? But I had been caught out once before (badly!).

 

I dunno. Maybe I should get one for the sake of safety. And maybe I should start wearing a damn helmet when out in the snow (not getting any younger, ya know?!).

Put it this way

 

It's FUN :D

I can see where you are coming from about the false safety. But every time you go for a drive you are relying on your brakes working that is false saftey.

 

The 2 real times the TC has cut in when I wasn't expecting to, its impossible to say what would have happened if I didnt have it. It could have spun on the slippy part for a very short time and then carried on. It is impossilbe to say what would have happened other wise.

 

However I am still here and I have still got my car to learn about what happened. Both times I was not expecting it to cut in. I was not expecting a huge frozen burst water mains to flood half the road which has no street lights on. I was driving cautiously that was why I was doing less than 40mph when the limit was 60. Over taking today (Well now yesterday) I wasnt applying too much power, but the unexpected flooded drain with bumpy road cause a wheel spin.

 

In both cases the least that could have happened was I carried on as normal. The worst I could have been dead. The Traction Control may have saved my life or it could have been a waste of money. Frankly I dont want to find out which.

 

About once a year there is always some one on here who loses their car and hits a tree or puts it into a bush (touching wood right now). Luckly no one has ever been seriously hurt and its not happened for a while. For the 2 maybe 3 times it has happened that I know of, the drive said they wish they had Traction Control.

 

Traction Control does not make you grip better, it will not stop you skidding all the time as some type of skids are undetectable for the Traction Control system and even then wheel spin is not the cause of the skid. I have never been going round a corner so fast that caused Traction Control come on. I have always gauged the corner and the road conditions before deciding how fast I take the corner and the TC has never had to interveen. For starters you get understeer on a Z when you go into a corner too fast which Traction Control will not correct.

 

I will agree with you on the point that if you rely on it, it may not safe you. Any one who relies 100% on something to save them is a fool. A box of electronic will not stop you driving like an idiot. It will help you out with sudden changes in road conditions.

 

But how do you know that there isnt an oil patch on the road just round the next corner? How do you know that you have just got a puncture and one or your rear tyres are a few PSI down and leaking.

You will find out when you reach that corner and you slip on that oil patch or the rear slides out because of the puncture. And what will stop wheel spin faster? You or lightning fast electronics? If I was expecting problems like that all the time I would drive everywhere at 20mph.

 

DaveW:

If you want me to show you what the Traction Control really does I will happy to take you out and show you when you come to find your phantom boost leak ;)

 

 

Stuart

Here is a little extract from a web site with some one who installed Traction Control. I think this explains things a little better than what I can.

 

Being dyslexic I have trouble with.......... er............ those things................ er............ what they called?................ Errrr, WORDS!. Thats it ;) And dont explain things well.

 

 

The next day, I took the car down to Lydden for a test day. I was not sure how much or how little the car would benefit from traction control in the dry but I soon found out on the first lap where part of the circuit was extremely damp. Although I was gingerly going round, the car started to move but the difference was that the movement was damped and a quick flick of the opposite lock and the slide was brought under control. The system had started to act immediately the slide had started and this has slowed the slide and given me time to correct it. This was also true when a car dropped some oil on the circuit. The car started to slide, the traction control damped it down and I finished the rest. It is like have a safety net which helps you if you get it slightly wrong. The end result is that you feel more confident and to quote a well known advert, "it takes the drama out of a crisis". You also learn exactly where the limits are and this enables you to improve your driving skills

 

Stuart

Originally posted by SRRAE

And dont explain things well.

I wouln't say that. I think your explanation made perfect sense. I wouldn't say I thought you had a problem with words either - you've banged out loads of them :D

 

If it sounds like I've got a real problem with what you're saying, that's not the case. I'm trying to decide what the pros and cons of having TC are. I have a problem with systems that are excessively intrusive - if you take too much away from the driver the experience could end up boring and sanitised. Henri Le Hir put up a long post a while ago about HiCAS, and responded to people saying: it's cr*p, get rid of it! Personally, I'd say HiCAS isn't excessive - you don't feel like it's saving you on every bend. It just becomes part of the handling of the car and you learn to drive with it. I haven't really found ABS intrusive (apart from one time in the snow). I imagine, although reaching out and grabbing you more obviously than HiCAS, TC could be a real benefit without being a complete pain in the ass. Maybe I need a controlled demo - same bit of road (wet bend, whatever) with it enabled and disabled. Considering the sort of horses I'll be trying to put down, and the fact that the cr*ppy weather is here already, maybe it'd be a worthwhile investment?

 

The other benefit of course - if it's peeing down when I do this track-day in November, at least I can go out and try some drifting without thinking I'm gonna kill myself :)

Get it! :D :D I'm very pleased with mine!

 

Don't forget that you can not only set the amount of permitted spin (or turn it off!) - you can also set the electronic parameters for each of those modes. If you're not 100% happy with it then you can change it.. The Supra site have done lots on this and I know Andy P has published his settings on here some time ago.

 

When Jock and I fitted it we took my car to the local DIY store car park and gave it a try. I was amazed - at almost half lock with foot to the floor we could not lose the back. I then turned it off and tried the same manoevre and we nearly went sideways into a bollard!

 

I don't drive any differently now though (although I may be a little more generous on the throttle coming out of junctions in the wet now :D :D )

 

HTH

 

Steve

Originally posted by 51x

Considering the sort of horses I'll be trying to put down, and the fact that the cr*ppy weather is here already, maybe it'd be a worthwhile investment?

 

 

That was really the main reason for the wheel spin the other day. I just got it chipped and upped boost and now the turbos spool up in a completely different way. A hell of a lot quicker.

 

I hear what you say about the HICAS, but I think what that problem was, sometimes the rear wheels turn one way sometimes they turn the other way depending on how much you are turning and your speed, and there is also the quick turn one way and then back. That would put me right off.

 

Thank god I dont have it. ;)

 

Stuart

Originally posted by SRRAE

Thank god I dont have it. ;)

It sounds worse than it feels (IMO). As long as the rest of your suspension is OK (get the rear tracking done!) it can be kinda hard to notice. I did the infamous roundabout test - drive faster and faster in circles... it feels a bit more obvious then. But you have to stop and chuck up after a while ;)

 

Right, what's the normal going rate for a Racelogic box? Just so I can see what a good deal that group buy is.