What is the benefit of hybrid turbos and what sort of extra power do they give over stock turbos. ( car also has decatted s/s exhaust).

 

Trying to decide if its worth paying the extra for hybrids over stock turbos.

 

Cheers.

 

Martin.

Originally posted by MAC 1

 

Steve? I know Tony Lack has this problem with the new tubs he had fitted.14psi actuators that run at 18,as the new tubs bed in they will make 2-4 psi more;)

 

*cough, cough* bullshit *cough, cough*

 

WTF is there in a turbo to "bed in"???? hopefully nothing is touching anything in a turbo housing. its all free floating!!

 

sounds more like a wastegate actuator problem to me! if the wastegate is set to open at 14psi then it will vent at 14psi!! so even if the turbo could "bed in" & somehow produce more boost, the wastegate should still limit it anyway ;)

Originally posted by Paul C

*cough, cough* bullshit *cough, cough*

 

WTF is there in a turbo to "bed in"???? hopefully nothing is touching anything in a turbo housing. its all free floating!!

 

 

Oh dear Mr MOT tester is wrong:( My tubs were making 19psi after 1k miles.The boost was set at 14.

 

So you telling me the bearings will not loosen up:rolleyes:

 

It was PeterR that told me this is what happens with new turbos,dont question that he has had over 20 years experiance in racing cars and is not an MOT tester:p

Originally posted by MAC 1

Oh dear Mr MOT tester is wrong:( My tubs were making 19psi after 1k miles.The boost was set at 14.

 

So you telling me the bearings will not loosen up:rolleyes:

 

It was PeterR that told me this is what happens with new turbos,dont question that he has had over 20 years experiance in racing cars and is not an MOT tester:p

 

FFS loosen up - do you mean wear out!!!???, the turbos spin at 100,000 - 150,000 rpm, the run on a fluidised bed of oil, no you dont want them to "loosen up" if they were stiff to start with then i would take them back!! :rolleyes:

 

perhaps the actuators have "bedded in" (worn) & gone weak eh??? :D

Originally posted by MAC 1

Oh dear Mr MOT tester is wrong:( My tubs were making 19psi after 1k miles.The boost was set at 14.

 

So you telling me the bearings will not loosen up:rolleyes:

 

Wow, where do I begin..

 

Your boost was set to 14psi, and yet you were making 19psi? Ohhhkay..

 

Either a) Your actuators were not opening the wastegate properly or fully, or b) Your boost controller wasn't working properly.

 

If your actuators are set to be fully open at 14psi, they will be fully open at 14psi, end of. And if your turbo is properly designed, when the wastegate is fully open (by the actuators, at 14psi), the boost the turbo is able to produce will drop off to ~0. Ergo, boost will start to fall to below 14psi, at which point the actuators begin to shut, and the boost the turbo can produce begins to rise.

 

Think about it - if your wastegate was fully open, and you were still making 19psi, then you could never, ever, EVER make lower boost than that.. I.e. you would STILL be making 19psi.

 

So, what are you boosting now? 19psi or 14psi?

 

If you're boosting 14psi, someone was telling you porkie pies.

 

Also, what bearings do you have? Plain bearings or roller/ball? Plain bearings might loosen up, however, as Paul says, when the turbo is running, the shaft should actually be free floating - floating on a layer of oil, at no point does the bearing shaft or face touch any other metal component. Therefore, negligable drag from new. Ball/roller bearing will probably loosen up slightly more than plain bearings, IMHO.

 

However it still stands that if your wastegate is opening properly and at the right pressure, you'll only ever boost what it is set at. Either that, or the turbo's have too small a wastegate, and you'll never be able to lower the boost. (Which apparently, you have - ergo it must have been your actuators opening too late, too slowly, either by themselves or as a result of a boost controller with its gain set too low).

 

It was PeterR that told me this is what happens with new turbos,dont question that he has had over 20 years experiance in racing cars and is not an MOT tester:p

 

See, now if we all thought like that, we'd still think the world was flat.. Columbus would never have found America.. Hell, we'd still think the universe rotated around Earth and not around the star Solaris, because nobody would have bothered to question what the scholars of the age were telling them..

It's also the attitude that lets garages rip people off blind..

This is a very interesting read :D, can we make it sticky :p

Originally posted by MAC 1

 

It was PeterR that told me this is what happens with new turbos,dont question that he has had over 20 years experiance in racing cars and is not an MOT tester:p

 

LOL!! i have 20 yrs experience working on cars AND i'm an MOT tester (& MOT quality controller)

 

one day he might make it too if hes lucky! ;) :D

Originally posted by aaronjb

Wow, where do I begin..

 

Your boost was set to 14psi, and yet you were making 19psi? Ohhhkay..

 

yes

 

Either a) Your actuators were not opening the wastegate properly or fully, or b) Your boost controller wasn't working properly.

 

Nothing to do with my actators,my actuators are set at 8psi,It is Tony Lack that has 1 bar actuators

 

If your actuators are set to be fully open at 14psi, they will be fully open at 14psi, end of. And if your turbo is properly designed, when the wastegate is fully open (by the actuators, at 14psi), the boost the turbo is able to produce will drop off to ~0. Ergo, boost will start to fall to below 14psi, at which point the actuators begin to shut, and the boost the turbo can produce begins to rise.

 

Think about it - if your wastegate was fully open, and you were still making 19psi, then you could never, ever, EVER make lower boost than that.. I.e. you would STILL be making 19psi.

 

So, what are you boosting now? 19psi or 14psi?

I am now running at 15.5psi

 

If you're boosting 14psi, someone was telling you porkie pies.

 

No one is telling porkie pies my boost gauge told me

 

Also, what bearings do you have? Plain bearings or roller/ball? Plain bearings might loosen up, however, as Paul says, when the turbo is running, the shaft should actually be free floating - floating on a layer of oil, at no point does the bearing shaft or face touch any other metal component. Therefore, negligable drag from new. Ball/roller bearing will probably loosen up slightly more than plain bearings, IMHO.

 

360 thrust bearings

 

However it still stands that if your wastegate is opening properly and at the right pressure, you'll only ever boost what it is set at. Either that, or the turbo's have too small a wastegate, and you'll never be able to lower the boost. (Which apparently, you have - ergo it must have been your actuators opening too late, too slowly, either by themselves or as a result of a boost controller with its gain set too low).

 

NA

 

 

 

See, now if we all thought like that, we'd still think the world was flat.. Columbus would never have found America.. Hell, we'd still think the universe rotated around Earth and not around the star Solaris, because nobody would have bothered to question what the scholars of the age were telling them..

It's also the attitude that lets garages rip people off blind..

 

aaron Paul,as a thrust bearing turbo gets older it becomes more efficient,It will spool faster,then with age it will go the other way

 

aaron you can say what you want about Peter,IMHO he knows his stuff about the z32 and would not even attempt to fit two left handed turbos to a Z:rolleyes: even though you had is machined it will cause problems!

Oh dear!

Originally posted by aaronjb

because you know jack about cars.

 

 

LOL!! pun intended?? ;) :D

 

do we all know what the thrust bearing is there for??

300zx.co.uk is in self destruct mode - the wastegate actuators are shut now!!! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by aaronjb

Oh dear!

 

Oh dear!

the phantom editer strikes again!! :D :rolleyes:

Chuffin ell, 3 pages later on, gees i wish all these posts had been entering the GB on turbo's mentioned at the begining :D :D

Anyways back to the start, i got the roller bearing jobbies and love em, come TT week over here i kill these big bikes, Steve Ellerby binned his HKS in favour of these and was over the moon.

C'J is having some and will be as pleased as me and steve put together :) So do 5 peeps want me to sort out a GB on the NORMAL NON ball bearing spool up Hybrids as mentioned at the start ?:p if so i've start a thread in my traders section on Monday.

cheers

smithy

Sorry guys - now i'm confused - and i dont mind to admit it.

 

why dont I get 2 bar actuators and control the level of boost with the emanage system?

 

Regards,

 

Alex

From what has been posted above. The boost, once the actuators have been fitted can only be turned up and not down.

Therefore you will be running 2 bar (i.e. 24psi) minimum.

 

Someone correct me if I haven't understood this correctly.

ok - so the actuator psi setting is not the level that the wastgagte opens i.e. maximum level.

 

what the hell is the point in setting the minimum boost level to 14psi why not set it at 0 so you can set whatever boost level you want.

 

Regards,

 

alex

 

p.s. sorry if its a daft question.

Ok to try and recover some tech from above without making the arguement worse.....

 

 

STRAIGHT OFF THE PRODUCTION LINE, a turbo with a journal type bearing and thrust bearing assembly will require a very small amount of running in. As this happens, the turbo increases its efficiency. What is actually the case is that it isn't as efficient as it should be out of the box - just like any other mechanical moving part, it needs running in. This is more related to the thrust bearing rather than the main journals.

 

What you are likely to see isn't so much an increase in boost, as an increase in boost spike before the actuator gets control of the turbo.

 

Of course, the way to go is roller bearing turbos - but who am I to tell you all what to do :D

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

oh god andy

 

- thanks for confusing me when i thought i had it sorted.

 

After speaking to turbo dynamics this is the really really simple version.

 

if the actuator is set at 14 psi you cannot set a boost controller anything less than this. With experience they estimate you can set a boost controller up to double this. i.e 28psi

 

you are able to run less than 14psi if you have re-circ's or dump valves controlled by the boost controller.

 

I hope this helps

:confused:

 

Regards,

 

alex