The war looks like its going to be over soon, all you tw@ts who didnt want the war, all you peace marching losers, all you sad gits still out there having peace marches, do you really still believe that the war shouldnt have happened???

 

See the pictures of people in the streets? giving flowers to the soldiers, made up that the fact that the soldiers are there and Soddem is on his way out..

 

you lot should hang your heads in shame because if we haddnt gone in these people would still be opressed, miserable and living in fear of their lives.

 

Well done to the boys out there!!

 

hope its over soon.

Originally posted by 300z

I believe if a person hasent lived in a country where people are supressed / opressed and not been allowed to live in a free and democratic way, you cant really be to qualyfied to go on about what is right or wrong ect based on the fact your looking in on it from an outsiders point of view.Live under that situation before you can really understand what its like. What we saw today in the streets of IRAQ was in no way manufactured for the press ect, i saw that statue go down live, you could see the peoples responce. Why is it that pretty much every singel IRAQ exile or person they have interviewed has been happy as a pig in shit about the end result.

 

America (as bad a place as everyone makes it out to be) is still the best example of a free democratic society and if they can generate a free trade country in the middle east it would benefit every country in the world even if it benefits them more.

 

they are looking after there own interests (and who could really blame them after Spetember the 11th - how quickly people forget)

Have a read up on Oil import and distribution figures for America last year, on paper at least they use 13% of there entire oil from the middle east. So im not 100% convinced its all about oil.

Stablity in a region like this is far mroe in there interests.

 

Another TOP post ;)

Originally posted by Van300

 

Most civilisations were ruled by such leaders and with time have grown to cherish freedom and free will. We, in the western world, believe this to be our right-we've earned it. When Iraqis want this bad enough they would revolt. They haven't/didn't because perhaps the regime wasn't bad enough for them to risk their lives for. They could bear it. Different civilisations have varying degrees of tolerance- they have a higher one than us to civil rights, freedom of speech etc.

 

 

Where do you get this stuff from ??:confused: Once evil takes over, it's very difficult to turn things round without force IMHO. What u r talking about would take centuries !! Centuries of misery and death.

 

By the way, it's Iraq, not Irag ;)

Not wishing to stir things further but it's worth remembering that the 'political' reasons for starting this in the first place were not to liberate the people of Iraq but to protect the west from the danger of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. I am absolutely delighted to see a few hundred, of the several million, Iraqi people celebrating the recent events, but this is primarily the western propoganda machine justifying their actions retrospectively and trying to make us forget about the death toll so far. Anyway, now that Sadams reigeme seems to have collapsed the real work has to start. Let's hope they manage to evolve their own democratic leadership and we don't see the type of events as seen in Belfast over the past 30 years.

 

Definitely a time to be positive anyway.

The death toll from the war is nothing compared to Saddams death toll. What happens now will write history and determine if it was for the best. But for now, lets celebrate the demise of a tyrant. I agree that the motives are not entirely unselfish, but you help yourself by helping others.

 

The "western propaganda machine" is nothing compared to Iraq's/most other countries. It should be remembered, as stated above, America is one of the greatest nations on Earth; not perfect, but a good basic model. OK they use lots of resources, but world stability is more important at the moment. I'd rather USA have the oil than a sadistic tyrant.

"... if we (the West) use our technology and power and money to make sure that NOBODY is oppressed in this world then I am happy"

 

Then are we not the opressors??

Originally posted by marriota

"... if we (the West) use our technology and power and money to make sure that NOBODY is oppressed in this world then I am happy"

 

Then are we not the opressors??

 

It's not what you do, it's the way that you do it.

I was just disappointed to read on the BBC site that

The 1st Battalion Royal Irish Regiment has reached Al Qurnah,

as it means I can't make the crack about the Irish invading Bagshot.

I was imagining that the war did not proceed... those people on the streets of Bahgdad partying on the streets today will still be trapped and suffering.. probably next on Sad's death list... Economy will still gloom while Blix will still be searching... Then there will be more people going on strike for loss of job than people joining the anti war protest... And if Sad gets away with this.. lots of future saddist dictator will be influenced to follow.. terrorists activities will be encouraged... ..

n probably I'll be trading my Zed for a Corolla if it's too much to pay for oil... wat a terrifying thought..!!

Originally posted by gavo

I think if any of you "anti war" had lived in iraq under saddam, you would have a very different view, not that these people were allowed to have a view, to have one and speak out about it would have had you tortured if you were lucky, or would it be death that were more lucky, and as for ; " When people realise that their government is not working in the interest of their people there will be an uprising of some form or another as has happened in most developed countries."

are you for real???, how long should we have waited and done nothing till this didnt happen, and when saddam did decide to go or die, there was a carbon copy there in the form of his son that would have took over where daddy left off, i hate the thought that people had to suffer / die for this, but if you were to do a body count of how many suffered / died for no good reason because of saddams utter greed and cruelty so far, add to that the people who would have been tortured/raped/killed, in the future had we sat and done nothing the difference will be unquestionably huge. Take all the propoganda and lies away and you are still left with a much better prospect, be it oil, popularity, whatever saddams regime is gone and good riddance. Oh by the way this is just my view and opinion that i /we are privelidged to be able to voice, Never forget it

 

 

Top post Gavo,I agree 100%

Originally posted by senna

Without wishing to make this a personal diatribe, where are your billious attacks on these responses 300z, scoops, Tim, Iain, et-al?

 

 

Why should there be? they are normal people giving their oppinion.

 

Originally posted by senna

I guess Van, Gio, Mike and AndyP have crab shit for brains for saying just what I have said all along:(

 

 

Not at all,they don't come on this board while they are under the influence of white powder and talk pure shite!Then tell us all to f*ck off If anyone don't agree with them.

 

eg this http://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17630

all valid points in there own right but comparisons here canb be drawn back to britains colonialist days and even hitlers ideas on creating the one perfect superstate.....just because these countries are not up to american or english levels of democracy doesnt mean you have the right to impose your democratic views on them......will they be doing the same to israel now they've finished with iraq because the israelis have been breaking un resolutions for over 30 years also will they go in and bomb irelands terrorist camps with b-52 and cruise missiles......and i cant wait to see what happens if they try to flex their muscles with korea........we'll see just how many people are still happy about this over the next 12 months when all of the war budgets secret taxes start to take effect and it takes money from you the tax payer to build back what has been destroyed in 21 days of conflict even though in theory iraq is the second wealthiest oil state in the world you will all still have to foot the bill for rebuilding

I started reading these.......

Don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet.......but it was only about 80 years ago that we were no better than Saddam. We ruled Iraq and killed the citizens, burned their villages etc.

Clair's got a point - I heard on the TV today someone read out the orders given by British offices to our soldiers back then, If anyone saw an Iraqi with a gun, they were to be shot and their family and village taken out (not the exact words I know).

 

Not nice.

 

And tooley's got some interesting points too. But there are lots of differences between the cultures and countries mentioned - and in the rest of this thread as well.

 

No country is perfect - but democracy is probably the "least worst" of today's political systems (and actually, it's not US or UK levels of democracy, it's Greek ones!). At least we have the right to stand up and say Mr Blair is a liar and a cheat and should be voted out of office as soon as possible (not necessarliy my view - just an eg).

 

If that was tried under Saddam or in N Korea or in Taliban-era Afghanistan, you'd be dead or worse.

 

For me, that is the key difference. And if we leave Iraq and the Iraqis able to do that in future, than there will have been a positive result - even if by a not-very-nice method.

 

Peace - Gio

This thread has been all too serious and a little depressing to be honest so I thought it's time I brought it down to our usual level, whilst still keeping on subject !

 

The British speech (Lt. Col Tim Collins) "If you are ferocious in battle, remember to be magnanimous in victory. We go to liberate, not to conquer. We are entering Iraq to free a people, and the only flag that will be flown in that ancient land is their own. Don't treat them as refugees, for they are in their own country. If there are casualties of war, then remember, when they woke up and got dressed in the morning they did not plan to die this day. Allow them dignity in death. Bury them properly and mark their graves. You will be shunned unless your conduct is of the highest, for your deeds will follow you down history. Iraq is steeped in history. It is the site of the Garden of Eden, of the Great Flood and the birth of Abraham. Tread lightly there."

 

The US speech (Vice Admiral Timothy Keating) "When the president says 'Go', look out - it's hammer time" (followed by We Will Rock You at high volume)

Originally posted by tooley

will they go in and bomb irelands terrorist camps with b-52 and cruise missiles......

 

yes but did u notice when america said that they were "going to war with terrorism" that the IRA suddenly went very quiet and started going ... errrr ... well... errr perhaps we'd better have a bit of a cease fire and down tools......

AndyP - ahh - the essential difference between a civilised nation and the yanks :D hehehehe

 

When Ghandi was asked what he thought about western civilisation, he replied he thought it would be a good idea!

 

;) Gio

Originally posted by AndyP

This thread has been all too serious and a little depressing to be honest so I thought it's time I brought it down to our usual level, whilst still keeping on subject !

 

The British speech (Lt. Col Tim Collins) "If you are ferocious in battle, remember to be magnanimous in victory. We go to liberate, not to conquer. We are entering Iraq to free a people, and the only flag that will be flown in that ancient land is their own. Don't treat them as refugees, for they are in their own country. If there are casualties of war, then remember, when they woke up and got dressed in the morning they did not plan to die this day. Allow them dignity in death. Bury them properly and mark their graves. You will be shunned unless your conduct is of the highest, for your deeds will follow you down history. Iraq is steeped in history. It is the site of the Garden of Eden, of the Great Flood and the birth of Abraham. Tread lightly there."

 

The US speech (Vice Admiral Timothy Keating) "When the president says 'Go', look out - it's hammer time" (followed by We Will Rock You at high volume)

 

LOL funny how people look at something differently, i look at that and think

Some pompous blue blooded noce making a big thing out of a relativly small issue (suppose it was his 15 minutes) and i see someone who gets to the point and goes for it :D

Originally posted by Clair

I started reading these.......

Don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet.......but it was only about 80 years ago that we were no better than Saddam. We ruled Iraq and killed the citizens, burned their villages etc.

 

Yep but now we are makin' it upto them! LOL :D

quoted by gio:

AndyP - ahh - the essential difference between a civilised nation and the yanks hehehehe

At last ive found common ground with gio lol, i agree entirely.

Originally posted by 300z

LOL funny how people look at something differently, i look at that and think

Some pompous blue blooded noce making a big thing out of a relativly small issue (suppose it was his 15 minutes) and i see someone who gets to the point and goes for it :D

 

Van De Merwe.

Originally posted by marriota

"... if we (the West) use our technology and power and money to make sure that NOBODY is oppressed in this world then I am happy"

 

Then are we not the opressors??

 

Don't think I can remember seeing coalition troops electricuting, beating up, raping, starving or gassing iraqi civilians since the war started???

The official line for why the Minister of information has gone missing?

Hes on holiday (This is the truth) lmffao bwhahahahahahahahaha taking holiday at such an appropriate time lol.:D

 

 

Senna? lost me there apart from the fact my Mothers maiden name is Van der Merver?

Don't think I can remember seeing coalition troops electricuting, beating up, raping, starving or gassing iraqi civilians since the war started???

No. we did all that to them 80 years ago.

 

And as for the war on terrorism...America has been, and still is doing open collections for the IRA in New york. I guess Bush thinks thats OK.

 

My last point is, Wepons of mass destuction. How quickly people forget. The only people to ever use them is America...twice! Killing 1000s of civilians. I find it rather scary to think that America can basically do whatever they want and no-one can stand up to them.

I reckon the only reason Saddam han't used chemical/biological weapons against us is to try and win the moral/political debate.

"I reckon the only reason Saddam han't used chemical/biological weapons against us is to try and win the moral/political debate."

 

Or perhaps he doesn't have any?????