Hi guy`s have an observation to dicuss about ecu upgrades done by a UK tuning company. (No Names )

 

Have dealt with 2 Zed`s in a fortnight which have "Boost Upgrades" prior to me dealing with them and both detting like crazy!

 

On both cars the Actuators had been connected together and bleed jets fitted, the install looking very neat and using crimp type pipe connectors.

 

However on both cars the standard eprom was in place and the safety boost solenoids disconnected.

 

On both cars fitting a corret upgraded eprom and rearranging the pipework to use boost jets as apposed bleed jets sorted the detting also I reconnected the safety boost solenoids.

 

The boost level on one car was previously set to almost 17psi !!! with standard ecu!.... no wonder it was detting.

 

 

Not sure if these cars are isolated cases but maybe another thing to look out for, anyone come across the same thing?

 

Jeff TT :cool:

Jeff,

 

I recognise the method you describe from personal experience ...

 

The company which I know which uses this method does a timing adjustment to remove detting. (For the critics, this obviously doesn't give the optimum power which an ECU upgrade does but it CAN be used to ensure that this method of boost upgrade doesn't cause detonation).

 

Just a suggestion but have your customers had any other work carried out on their cars since the boost increase and then had the timing reset ?

 

In my own experience, the company I was using explained the timing adjustment to me in some detail and made sure that I could brief anyone else who might readjust the timing. They did this pro-actively - I didn't ask for the information.

 

Of course I may be talking about a different company - I didn't have any problems with varying boost peaks myself (I had a separate boost gauge).

 

Dave

Yep you are right Dave the timing (dynamic) had been altered to reduce the possibility of detting (scribed markings on the Cas unit face) but unfortunately since the upgrade a timing belt had been fitted by another dealer and with no knowledge of the upgrade they timed it correctly or as in this case incorrectly.

 

Still retarding the ignition must surely cancel out most of the gains from the extra boost though? whatever.... as we have all come to learn no two of these engines seem to run exactly the same so when upgrading I would guess making these kind of adjustments are an individial thing so perhaps suggesting that it is bad practise is unfair as a sweeping comment but it does seem a bit amateur, then if works ok for some.

 

Thanks anyway Dave

 

Jeff TT

 

:D

Can you two name the company(s) involved???

 

This is great as a positive finding but think about the potential peeps that might go there for an upgrade! ;)

Boost jets really are not the answer to a solid stable boost, youd be much better of getting a decent boost controller.

Jets tend to bleed and lead to Spikes all over the place.

Not really the answer when in the long run it will cost you a fortune.

Timmy I think we kinda all know which company is in question starts with a letter that looks like a 5 and ends with a letter that looks like a backward 3. HANG ON THOUGH!!! I am dissing them completely,just observing that an underbonnet sticker would be a good idea to inform other dealers that settings have been optimised in the way they have.

 

I suppose it all comes down to choice when using a tuning company and I suppose this does highlight the need to ask as many questions as possible to get a clear picture of what you are getting for your money.

 

Warren good point on the boost controller I totally agree with you..well to a point. You are lucky enough to be in a position to run a totally wicked powered zed and have the funds available to do it, however not all the guys are in that position and boost jets are one of those methods which done correctly can give good results with NO damage and affordable.

 

I appreciate spiking can take place so therefore a compromise is required where the level of boost set is below the max allowed limit giving good boost performance but with a margine of error available for any spiking that way it would still stay within a safe tolerance then.

 

Thanks guys for your comments

 

Jeff TT

yup that is what i was trying to get at.

They are not a bad option, but you need to take into account spike.

 

Oh and regarding the Said Employment (thats all i could come up with :D) company well we have all been down that route.

Its good to bring these things up over and over again as it lets people make there own minds up.

And at the end of the day more Power = more cost involved in wear and tear.

Their is no cheap way out of this.

could have been Smelly Enterprises waz!! lol :D

 

surely the whole point of chipping when upping the boost pressure is to allow safe fueling not just timing changes.

Thats basically what retarding the ignition does - allows upped boost on the current fueling. NAF imo ;) The potential power increase is no where near achieved if the timing is wound back.

 

However, I have seen another side to this kind of work. Someone comes in and says 'I want more power from my 300zx'. When they are told the costs involved the standard response is always 'I didn't think it would cost that much is there anything cheaper that can be done?'. In responce to this, in order to satisfy the customer, maybe, just maybe, a solution is suggested BUT also the associated problems. This is where the problem arises. The customer is warned that these changes are not the safest option etc and to be carefull and look out for certain symptoms etc. Unfortunately, while they are being told this they are dreaming of the power increase and the info is going in one ear and out of the other. Then the customer has problems and takes the car to another garage, doesn't repeat what they have been told etc etc etc. I am not defending what has been done here - what I AM saying though is that sometimes customers can be VERY pushy and don't care what you say about how unsafe a particular mod is.

 

Not reffering to any stories in particular, in fact none from 300zx owners. It DOES happen though ;)

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

Thats basically what retarding the ignition does - allows upped boost on the current fueling.

 

no, its just retarding the timing & helping to stop detonation, its going to do nothing to stop it running far too weak at higher boost pressures that the standard fuel maps not able to cope with.

 

Its only combatting 1 problem, imo

hehe - isn't that what I said??? :D

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

after re-reading your post - yes! that is whay you said!! lol!!

 

what can I say, its my week off away from my spanners, gonna need retraining when i get back!! lol:D

Originally posted by Paul C

after re-reading your post - yes! that is whay you said!! lol!!

 

what can I say, its my week off away from my spanners, gonna need retraining when i get back!! lol:D

 

So, can of stella in hand then!!! hehehe :)

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

Originally posted by andyduff

So, can of stella in hand then!!! hehehe :)

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

Customers duffer? so what are you trying to say ? That RICERONIE is up and running?

Its about bloody time if it is.

:D

Jeff, of course you're right that retarding ignition removes some of the benefit but I had this done and it was still a huge improvement. I ran for about a year without any detonation before going for a custom chip - this gave another big benefit too :)

 

On the issue of fuelling, when I was having my chip produced, I had the opportunity to watch the accesses to the various parts of the fuel map as the car was run on the rolling road - i.e. I could actually see which fuel reading was being used.

 

The Z ECU does not fuel based on boost - it fuels based on air flow through the AFM. Contrary to popular opinion, the stock fuel map DOES have fuel settings for the AFM readings which were being achieved when I was boosting at 15 psi.

 

However, re-advancing the ignition brought in detonation and the chip was then re-mapped to increase the fuelling to remove the detonation despite the now optimised timing.

 

Hope this is of some help.

 

Oh, and Andy & Jeff's point is an excellent one. We don't always want to pay to money. Boost jets and retarded ignition CAN be a safe way to a power gain. But, as Jeff says, it needs to be explained.

 

And I think the idea of putting a sticker in place under the bonnet is an excellent one.

 

Dave