This is a long read, so get a drink and get comfy! lol

 

Just wanted peoples opinions on what's to be expected by a "specialist" 300ZX garage these days. The story.................

 

After 5 years of having so called bodyshops (not the guys at Custom Exotics who have been the only people I've met who have pride in their work), I decided to make one last attempt at getting my Z back on the road or it would be broken/scrapped. Before getting it back into the guys at Custom Exotics to have some panels sorted and let the interior trimmer do his bit, I decided to make sure it was mechanically and structurally sound. There's not that many garages that I thought I could trust so I thought I would make the 200 odd mile round journey from London to a "specialist". So on the 8th March with my Z on the back of a trailer I headed up to this "specialist". I told them there was no rush and they were happy with that as obviously no one had any idea if anything was wrong as it hasn't been driven for 5 years. I wanted the major service done, so belts, oil/fuel filters, water pump, thermostat etc. I supplied most of the parts which were all OEM. I also wanted a full inspection carried out so I'd know that my car was mechanically/structurally sound before spending any other money on it.

 

So about 2 weeks later, I called them to get an update only to be told that they had just finished and everything was fine on my car. He actually commented that he couldn't believe that my car hadn't been driven for 5 years as apart from the timing belt needing doing and the bottom radiator support bracket which had rust, there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. Needless to say I was over the moon!! I told him my friend who helped me get my Z on the trailer was still away in Spain and should be back the following week so I couldn't pick it up till then, he said no problem as long as the bill was settled up which it was when they called me back with the final amount. Unfortunately, I couldn't pick up my Z for about 3 weeks from that phone call as my mate was delayed getting back from Spain, then I ended up in Moorfields Eye Hospital and then I couldn't get a trailer from any local hire place. I kept the garage informed at each step and it was never an issue (or at least they never told me it was).

 

So on the 18th April, I hooked up the hired trailer again and headed back up to collect my Z. All was fine, no cross words, no issues and we stood around chatting about Z's and cars for a while. My car seamed to run perfectly smooth and we got it up on the trailer and left. I honestly thought I had completed the first step to getting my car back on the road................................

 

I noticed the first problem as soon as we were removing the car off the trailer at the bodyshop. There was a small dent in the passenger sideskirt which I am 100% certain was not there as I washed the car just before taking it to this "specialist". I called them the very next day and they emailed me back asking for pictures which I sent. Personally I believe the damage was done by a lift arm but obviously I cannot prove this. They had no idea about the damage and as my car was in the bodyshop anyway, the guys at Custom Exotics said they would do a smart repair on it and not to worry. I wasn't happy it was damaged but it was nothing major, more annoying than anything else.

 

 

 

Now we start on the real issues. I went up to the bodyshop on the 24th April to start doing a few bits. I opened up the bonnet to discover the right hand radiator bracket flapping about, just being held on by a self tapping screw. I was stunned as I can't believe this garage had snapped a bolt and just "bodged" a repair on something so simple to get to and fix. I took some pictures and emailed them to the garage with a subject heading of " Very disappointed" and simply asking for them to explain this.

 

 

 

 

 

This was the response headed "metal age changes explained" with the following which looks like it's just been copy and pasted from the web:

 

Hi Vijay,

 

By the look of the picture that is the right hand radiator hold bracket as fitted to the twin turbo model, it looks like the original fixing has snapped when by been over tightened or more likely when been undone as they do occasionally seize in place, the reason I think they do this is the under side of the panel has a large amount of air pass over it when driving and often this can be very damp air and causes rust to form on the bolt thread that protrudes through the welded nut.

 

 

 

So what is rust ?

When the open-air oxidation of iron takes place, rust is the oxide that forms. While the chemical composition of rust (Fe2O3.nH2O) means nothing to the average homeowner, it is the resulting hydrated iron oxide that gets all of the attention [1]. Rusting is the general term used to describe the corrosion of iron and its alloys, such as steel.

 

The process of rust involves the way various materials react with oxygen, which results in the chemical compound of rust. When iron combines with oxygen, iron oxide forms. Since iron oxide is larger in size than iron, the oxidation process causes it to “puff up” and sometimes flake. When a great amount of rust accumulates, the buildup may create a powerful force that can actually separate adjacent parts.

 

 

 

So back to the picture the upshot of the damp air passing over the exposed part of the tread causes a reaction within the metal of the bolt and this reduces the structural strength to a point it can become difficult to undo and can fail ( snap), as the area below the original fixing is double skinned and is not flat the an alternative fixing looks to have been made using a self tapping screw.

 

Hope that has explained that for you.

 

Regards

 

Now to me that was just a sarcastic and rude answer. I understand that bolts will rust and shear but surely any "specialist" worth anything would have drilled it out and tapped it and not just put a self tapping screw through the bodywork? I called the owner of the garage to ask about his reply and said to him how can I trust any of his work if he would happily do this to someone's car - what would he do if there was a bolt with bad access that had sheared???? Well at that point he swore at me and proceeded to hang up. I was absolutely shocked as I had not at any point been rude to him in any way! I called straight back and his wife answered and said he cannot speak to me as he's busy and he said I should put anything I want to say in an email - great customer services!!!!!

 

My Email:

 

To say I'm stunned that you just swore, hung up on me and then when I called straight back you were busy and told me to send you an email is an understatement!!

 

I've contacted you as soon as I found a problem with something I'm sure no one would be happy with. I accept bolts can snap but to just bodge a repair like that is just not right! I've always thought you were professional and never had a bad thing to say about you so to just drill though a bracket and bodywork and put a self tapping screw though, that is loose and allows the bracket to flap, is just not right. Would you be happy if someone did that to your car??

 

Can you please respond to me as I feel that it's not right that you just hung up on me and treated me in this manner.

 

Can I also have a replacement bracket sent to me and I will fix it properly.

 

His response:

 

Despite this business been my passion I have sweated blood and tears for for 12 years + to create a simple issue with a fixing that I was still wondering about when we spoke resulted in you personally attacking my work whole ethic, to even suggest for one moment that any other part of the work was questionable because of the broken bracket bolt was simply outrageous and if you consider for one moment how insulting you were been then you will understand the answer you got.

 

It is always regrettable when any issue arises and even more so when it escalates, I do regret ending the phone call in the manner I did but it was a moment of unclarity.

 

(A replacement bracket and bolt will be sent to your preferred address ( please advise) )

 

 

Was I being insulting to question anyones work if they repaired bolts with easy access in this way? As I said to him, what would he do with a bolt with bad access which lets face it, with a 300ZX engine bay you rarely have good access to anything. To me it's a matter of professionalism and doing the right thing!

Ok the resolution is an appology, a refund on the inspection and the offer of a new inspection whilst Vijay is in attendance of both the car and the cambelt noise and now awaiting a reply by email.

 

ZX-TT you have a PM

 

Jeff TT

Jeff couldnt have worded it better myself

Fantastic news fellas.....now did I mention that Jeff kidnapped my pet tortoise and is demanding a huge ransom!

 

he still has my pet slug - herbert..... :crying:

My mrs said someone has kiddnapped Pheobe our lepord geko !!!!!

Be best to kep om topic till vijay has responded, dont want a serious thread turning into a joke, lets hope bitoth parties are happy with the outcome

Sorry about the closed thread, seems if we use certain mobiles as moderators it closes posts at random after viewing them lol

 

Can we keep it ontopic please, and hopefully vijay and jeff can get a satisfactory out come to this situation.

Very generous resolution from Jeff there, above and beyond whats expeceted of him both by members and by the law, Im would hope Vijay is more than pleased with the proposed resolution. Granted things could of been handled better from the first email, but Jeff has stepped up beyond the mark.

 

:thumbup1: to all the constructive comments made, and to the resolution offered.

Great to hear that this should now be resolved. I for one will not hesitate to use Zedworld for checking out my baby when I finally get it on the road..

Good decision, and IMO the right one. Hopefully Vijay will accept the apology and offer of monies back etc

Not nice to see threads like this popping up but ultimately they wll. Glad to see its all probably been sorted amicably :)

Thanks to everyone who has posted their opinions, both good and bad. This thread was never intended as any sort of which hunt which is why I made every effort to keep names out of it. I simply wanted peoples opinions on what should be expected from someone/anyone working on their Z's. I have to say that I was shocked at what some people wrote but obviously everyone's opinion and expectations are different. I think one day if someone did something you didn't like on something you cared about, you would still feel the same way and be so forgiving.

 

Jeff has emailed me first thing this morning in an attempt to resolve this. I fully accept I could have handled things differently but everyone has to understand that I have had 5 years of hell with people working on my Z (apart from Custom Exotics who have gone above and beyond every time!) and this felt like the final nail and I was ready to give up and throw in the towel. It was out of pure dissappointment that my first (and very short) email was sent.

 

Anyway, Jeff has now offered a refund of the inspection fee and has offered to look at the scraping noise and missfire if I get my Z up to him. I could not ask for anything else. It is a shame that we couldn't work this out at the very beginning and I hope we have both learnt from this as I don't like making posts like this and I'm sure Jeff doesn't like seeing these posts.

 

Thanks to everyone for reading this and maybe one day soon I'll be posting abut my Z actually being back where it belongs - on the road!!!! lol

 

Vijay

Very generous resolution from Jeff there, above and beyond whats expeceted of him both by members and by the law, Im would hope Vijay is more than pleased with the proposed resolution. Granted things could of been handled better from the first email, but Jeff has stepped up beyond the mark.

 

:thumbup1: to all the constructive comments made, and to the resolution offered.

 

 

I'm sorry mate but I fail to see the reasoning behind those statements?

 

but it's done now and people can hopefully move on, lessons learnt, confidence justifiably reinstated etc....group hugs all round

Statements are obvious when related to what is expected as per my last post. I have studied contractual law, and it was a generous resolution, above and beyond what the law would expect.

 

legally he would only have to offer a refund or to recarry out the work. He has offered both, instead of either or, hence my comment.

 

Hope that clears things up regarding the statement matey. PS. I love your car! Looks like it wants to eat pedestrians and spit them out the other end lol.

Statements are obvious when related to what is expected as per my last post. I have studied contractual law, and it was a generous resolution, above and beyond what the law would expect.

 

legally he would only have to offer a refund or to recarry out the work. He has offered both, instead of either or, hence my comment.

 

Hope that clears things up regarding the statement matey. PS. I love your car! Looks like it wants to eat pedestrians and spit them out the other end lol.

 

 

I'm just making the point that for the inconvenience and incurred expenses alone, a refund and another inspection is the least that I would expect by way of rectification.

 

I personally have no experience of Zedworld other than collecting parts, but I can honestly say that this thread has in no way deterred me from considering using their services in the future. However had they not taken measures to put things right in this instance I wouldn't have touched them with a barge pole purely out of principle.

 

as for contractual law, does that cover international seller/agent contracts aswell?

Ryan, you may know the law but I think you kind of forget was is morally right too.

 

The garage damaged the bracket by drilling thought it and yes have replaced it, but if I couldn't drill and tap it myself, I would have to pay someone to do that job and there is also a hole left in the bodywork it fixes to which obviously has to be rust proofed now.

 

Sadly the rusted sills were completely missed on the inspection. That makes the inspection absolutely useless and there would be no point in offereing to do it again as I have found the problem sills. As Big Jim said earlier, what would have happened if my car was painted, I took it for an MOT and it failed (which would have happened!)? I would have had to have the bodykit cut off and the whole sides repainted at my cost. The point of the inspection was to pick up obvious problems.

 

I think the outcome is the right one but I am glad that I can fix the bracket myself and more importantly, that I checked the sills. This has saved what could have been a nightmare outcome.

 

As I said earlier, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion as is everyone else. I hope you have the same opinion if someone ever did that to your car/posessions and would just let things go.

 

Vijay

unfortunately only affects buyers and sellers within the UK.

 

However, you have long distance selling regulations by purchasing something from an international seller.

 

In the first instance, you have from 7 days of arrival to reject goods for a full refund, at your cost of shipping - if non faulty (i.e you can send them back as you dont like the colour)

if the goods received are faulty the seller is responsible to arrange collection from you, at their cost, and to provide a replacement, or full refund including delivery charges. Again they may offer a repair aslong as it doesnt cause considerable inconveniance to the buyer - i.e anything over a 28day turnaround would be seen as an inconveinience to the buyer.

 

You also never need to buy extended warranty for any electrical device in the UK. As contractual law (i.e statutory rights which are always unaffected) state an item must be durable. I bought an Imac in 2003, and the screen died in 2008, Apple declined to do anything about it, Durability on electrical items for non commercial use is classed as 6 years. I sent them a kind email advising this, and spoke to trading standards, so they had a reference of it, incase I had to take it to a small claims court (cost of £38 fully recoverable)

 

Within 3 hours of sending the email, I had a nice call from an apple representitive that booked me in for a repair, advising they were sorry for the lack of support previously offered, and that if it could not be repaired at my local apple store (Cribbs Causeway Bristol) within 48 hours, they would provide me with a new imac to an equilivent spec of the one I already had, i.e if mine was a baisc model, they would supply the new basic model, mid or top of the range dependent on what mine was classed as at original purchase.

 

They repaired it the next day while I waited, putting in a new screen and a new motherboard, and supplying 90 days warranty at the same time.

 

had similar issue with a sofa from DFS. lost its shape in just 11 months, they wanted to repair it, I advised this wasnt a viable option as the problem would reoccur if repaired to original spec, so they agreed to replace it with a different sofa, we just paid the difference and had to wai 8 weeks for delivery lol.

 

 

If you ever get a few hours spare, is worth studying contractual law, as you would be amazed at your rights as a buyer.

 

HTH.

Ryan, you may know the law but I think you kind of forget was is morally right too.

 

The garage damaged the bracket by drilling thought it and yes have replaced it, but if I couldn't drill and tap it myself, I would have to pay someone to do that job and there is also a hole left in the bodywork it fixes to which obviously has to be rust proofed now.

 

Sadly the rusted sills were completely missed on the inspection. That makes the inspection absolutely useless and there would be no point in offereing to do it again as I have found the problem sills. As Big Jim said earlier, what would have happened if my car was painted, I took it for an MOT and it failed (which would have happened!)? I would have had to have the bodykit cut off and the whole sides repainted at my cost. The point of the inspection was to pick up obvious problems.

 

I think the outcome is the right one but I am glad that I can fix the bracket myself and more importantly, that I checked the sills. This has saved what could have been a nightmare outcome.

 

As I said earlier, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion as is everyone else. I hope you have the same opinion if someone ever did that to your car/posessions and would just let things go.

 

Vijay

 

I know Vijay, and I sincerely feel for you, I think the solution on a morale basis was a worthy one. But your original Post wanted to know your rights, my opinion is not reflected by the law. and I have to agree with 90% of comments here - and I would be seriously upset to say the least if it was my car. Sorry if it felt like I was imposing an opinion. never my intention, just trying to be factual.

 

Glad you found it though, and im sure that your very pleased with the end result.

 

:thumbup1:

Vijay, did you say your having a full body respray? or just a new kit blended in? If it is a full body job, are you going with OEM colour or a different one? Just wondered costs involved. as Im hoping to get mine done.

would you like this thread closing or leaving open now vijay, saves it going off topic and its here for what it was intended?

Ryan,

 

Full resprays are a VERY sore subject! lol Have a search for posts I've made over the last 5 years and the stories are even longer than this post ;) Sadly I have gone from a nice UK example of a Z with no rust to one that was bare metaled to be resprayed and then was completely bodged by 2 bodyshops that should never be in the business!!

 

A forum member suggested speaking to a guy he went to college with and knew, which is Scott as Custom Exotics. When I say they go above and beyond to paint your car, that is an understatement! They are interested in 2 things - 1. Giving you back a painted car that you are over the moon with and 2. A paint job they can be proud of!

 

They may not be the cheapest, but I formly believe you get what you pay for. Their workshop is like no other bodyshop I've ever visited and they don't try and B.S you about the paint on your car or work you may have already had done. They tell you what they can do for you/your car and I promise you, that is what you will get!

 

I wouldn't take my cars anywhere else and I have and would recommend them to absolutely anyone. When you are ready for the paintjob, why not go down and meet them and make up your mind ;)

 

Vijay

unfortunately only affects buyers and sellers within the UK.

 

However, you have long distance selling regulations by purchasing something from an international seller.

 

In the first instance, you have from 7 days of arrival to reject goods for a full refund, at your cost of shipping - if non faulty (i.e you can send them back as you dont like the colour)

if the goods received are faulty the seller is responsible to arrange collection from you, at their cost, and to provide a replacement, or full refund including delivery charges. Again they may offer a repair aslong as it doesnt cause considerable inconveniance to the buyer - i.e anything over a 28day turnaround would be seen as an inconveinience to the buyer.

 

You also never need to buy extended warranty for any electrical device in the UK. As contractual law (i.e statutory rights which are always unaffected) state an item must be durable. I bought an Imac in 2003, and the screen died in 2008, Apple declined to do anything about it, Durability on electrical items for non commercial use is classed as 6 years. I sent them a kind email advising this, and spoke to trading standards, so they had a reference of it, incase I had to take it to a small claims court (cost of £38 fully recoverable)

 

Within 3 hours of sending the email, I had a nice call from an apple representitive that booked me in for a repair, advising they were sorry for the lack of support previously offered, and that if it could not be repaired at my local apple store (Cribbs Causeway Bristol) within 48 hours, they would provide me with a new imac to an equilivent spec of the one I already had, i.e if mine was a baisc model, they would supply the new basic model, mid or top of the range dependent on what mine was classed as at original purchase.

 

They repaired it the next day while I waited, putting in a new screen and a new motherboard, and supplying 90 days warranty at the same time.

 

had similar issue with a sofa from DFS. lost its shape in just 11 months, they wanted to repair it, I advised this wasnt a viable option as the problem would reoccur if repaired to original spec, so they agreed to replace it with a different sofa, we just paid the difference and had to wai 8 weeks for delivery lol.

 

 

If you ever get a few hours spare, is worth studying contractual law, as you would be amazed at your rights as a buyer.

 

HTH.

 

I'm just typing up a new thread to ask all of these questions rather than carry this on here but just briefly what if:

 

(a) the 'seller' who is in Japan advertises his car for sale via a UK based import company (both get paid) and car is unsatisfactory (3 years older etc) when it arrives 7 months late

 

(b) the UK based company advertising the car refers to the Japanese based company as their 'agent' and having taken full payment then passes blame to the 'agent' in Japan for the car not being as described

 

*either way I don't get my car or money?

Glad its all sorted now:thumbup1: This thread would need closing so Vijay with your permission can this be closed and we all move on.

Awesome Vijay. if you have a linky to your other posts about bodyshops etc, would be a good read - as its something I need doing.

 

I dont mind travelling 200 miles if it means I got a top notch job. glad your please with custom exotics, will have to look them up :D

will keep eye out for your thread jap.slapper. and the contract is between you and the person who takes payment from you directly. thats the best part of getting parts / vehicles through an importer.

 

I was rying to get a full refund on my car, as its 3 years older than advertised. Seller has been in touch with me today following a letter I sent by recorded post about it being 3 years older than advertised, and a few faults I found. He is now offering to pay for all my repair work, which is 50% of what I paid for the car, so will prob most definately keep it now.

well its been asked twice and ignored, we have let the thread run and its now going off topic, im gonna close it now as hopefully all has been resolved

 

if there is any problems regarding the main subject from either parties then please contact me and i will reopen the thread

 

thanks

 

Allan