I'm no engine/car expert, but surely a 3-litre twin turbo has more potential power than a 2.6 ? litre twin turbo. Is it that the skyline has a less cramped engine bay ?

Why aren't there 1000+ BHP ZX's ?

There are 1000 bhp zeds around, but its an older car and alot harder to work on as everything is x's 2.

 

Skylines are far easier and probably cheaper to extract that BHP.

I've outrun a R32- just ask Latz

Dave

 

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You've fallen into the old american way of theres no replacement for displacement. Just because and engine is bigger, doesnt mean it has more power potential. Things such as the amount of material between the cylinders greatly increases the potential to tune 'higher' as thermal and kinetic stresses etc are better 'absorbed'.

Machining methods and advances in material (or using more expensive materials in the case of an older engine) make an engine better or more receptive to tuning.

Cramped engine bay really has 'little' to do with the overall tuning process, as a properly developed engine (car as a whole) will not matter how much free space is around the enigne.

Even though I have mentioned it a few times, the perfect example is the GT supra (run by Toms or TTE or TRD depending on date / country).

This supra used the highly developed 3s gte engine. This is the one as used in the ST185 and ST205 celica GT4 road and Group A (and WRC Corolla) car. And used in the MR2 turbo. You may be familiar with this Toms supra from Gran turismo (castrol racing colours). Im not sure what Gran turismo gives for specs, but its the 2litre four cyliner turbo engine. But the road car engine was so well built and over engineered, the team decided to use the WRC developed enigne in their race car. This also had the advantage of not developing another engine (much) to compete as all the work had already been 'completed' for the group A rally car. Still obviously further work had to be done on the engine as everything was designed with the required air restrictor in place. But cost was not the issue, and if they could have developed the straight six engine from the road going supra to be as competitive they would have.

Toyota group even went as far as using a 'variant' engine to keep the homologation status for the same block under a different name. This engine was used in some lexus or other. (or so I believe)

ill shut up now anyways!

 

edit: there were more smileys, im sure, just insert them where they should be!

 

[This message has been edited by Ay3388 (edited 27-06-2002).]

Look at Honda with the V-TEC technology...big bhp and negat blowers or superchargers.

 

 

 

 

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My stock 200SX is faster than a stock MR-2 and it weighs more !

 

The optimum engine size for racing depends largely on the overall weight of the car. The engine with the greatest power to weight ratio is the smallest. When installed in a car with passengers, a larger engine produces the optimum power to weight ratio for fuel efficiency [1.4/1.6 litre for 'normal' driving ?]. For the fastest acceleration and highest speeds, a larger engine is required [3-litre ?]. Bigger, more powerful engines have smaller increases of power at the expense of greater mass, and this hampers performance. For roadsters and Caterham 7's and the like, a smaller engine is probably best for ultimate performance as they have reduced mass. 2-litre engines are usually chosen for rallying because the cars are stripped of all excess weight. For the weight of a 300ZX [probably a bit more than a Skyline and definitely a lot more than an Impreza] it probably has the optimum engine size.

Turbocharging provides significant increases in power, without the extra weight a bigger engine would bring, so a smaller engine can be used. A 5.7 litre V8 Corvette has about the same power as a 300ZX because it has only 2 valves per cylinder and is not turbocharged(I think)[note Corvettes are possibly faster because they are probably tuned higher than a stock 300]

Someone recommends not using NOS with TT's, but I've heard it has beneficial cooling effects on the turbos (cools by absorbing heat as it turns to gas) and works better with turbos. The greatest power to weight ratio for a road car would probably be a 1 or 1.5 litre turbocharged roadsterc with NOS. But it would be scary and uncomfortable to drive. Anyone done it ?!

 

 

 

My 200SX is faster than an MR-2 and it weighs more !

 

The optimum engine size depends on the weight of the car and the performance criteria - it's all down to physics. The 300ZX is not a rally car, hence it has a 3-litre TT engine for high top speed and lots of power. A 2-litre engine is usually better for racing (eg. Subaru Impreza) because the car is lighter and won't go at excessive speeds. A bigger engine provides less proportional power to increased mass, but the optimum engine size depends on the car's overall mass and what the performance criteria are.

Yes, all Forumla 1 cars where 1.5 turbo cars and detuned to be around 700-800bhp. And the cars obviously did more MPG because they didnt refuel during races. With out the restriction the cars where said to produce over 1000bhp, from a 1.5.

 

Plus now with computers changing the timeing of engines and everything else as you drive, its not so much as engine size and asparation or valves that have the major say in a cars power or performance. Its all the smaller cleaver things that computers do that give engines that edge or make it run to the best of its ability all throught the rev range.

 

Stuart

My 200SX is faster than an MR-2 and it weighs more !

 

The optimum engine size depends on the weight of the car and the performance criteria - it's all down to physics. The 300ZX is not a rally car, hence it has a 3-litre TT engine for high top speed and lots of power. A 2-litre engine is usually better for racing (eg. Subaru Impreza) because the car is lighter and won't go at excessive speeds. A bigger engine provides less proportional power to increased mass, but the optimum engine size depends on the car's overall mass and what the performance criteria are.

 

My 200SX is faster than an MR-2 and it weighs more !

 

The optimum engine size depends on the weight of the car and the performance criteria - it's all down to physics. The 300ZX is not a rally car, hence it has a 3-litre TT engine for high top speed and lots of power. A 2-litre engine is usually better for racing (eg. Subaru Impreza) because the car is lighter and won't go at excessive speeds. A bigger engine provides less proportional power to increased mass, but the optimum engine size depends on the car's overall mass and what the performance criteria are.

 

 

I wrote a nice long reply, but it got wiped?!? booooo

Anyways, 200zx not SO much faster than an mr2 turbo. Maybe win but by 1/4 length, you say as if it would beat by a big margin

You asked potential power, I said about the 3sgte engine, TTE etc chose it for a reason.

I mentioned the devlepment of an engine etc. the RB engine in the skyline has more POTENTIAL power than the vg engine in the zx, its as simple as that. Big displacement does not matter as much, its the engine deisgn. The TTE developed 3sgte would have considerably more power and torque, more than enough to pull a zx around, regardless of how big the car is. Thats my take on the situation anyway.

This isnt meant nastily (may read it), but I pissed off at the thing wiping my original message, and i cant be arsed posting it again

Regards

sorry but it's down to nothing more simple then money and it does make more power with more cc's and no i'm not american HP equals MONEY for your agument it's easier to tune skylines to very high horsypower and who's going to spend over 150,000 squid on a ten year old car!!!!wait i'll just check mi loose change?? ahh WAIT..no s**t not this week then!! when i went to the states about 4 yrs ago i saw two zx's one wi 970hp and another wi 1130hp so it's poss to produce big hp wi these engines aswell it's just in 1987 when they started to think about z32's the technology wasn't there like in later stuff!hope this don't offend any one just my point of view think i'll shut up now ok bye

Big plus for the skyline is 4 wheel drive. 1000bhp with rwd only?! Holy Shiiit!!

Originally posted by oversteer??:

it's just in 1987 when they started to think about z32's the technology wasn't there like in later stuff!hope this don't offend any one just my point of view think i'll shut up now ok bye

 

I think they where thinking of the Z32 for more than a year. 12 Z32 where released in Japan in 1988. It takes any car years to make. Look at the new MINI, I remember seeing that over 5 years ago on the news. But its changed since then. I have been hearing about the Z350 for 4 years.

So if you think about it, the Z32 really has mid to late 80s technology, where the average PC would cost you £2500 and was a 386 33mhz SX and 1meg of RAM was £50. Skylines would have been based on late 90's technology where an average PC was £1000 and was over 1,000hmz and 256mb RAM will cost £30.

I know that its got nothing to do with a car, but in a way is has. The computers now basically run the car. Acceleration is no longer about a throttle cable letting in more fuel. Its about calculating speeds, temperature, air flow, fuel pressure to name a few and then a computer controling all of these to get optimal performance by changing timing and so on and so forth.

The computers on a Z32 will be no where as fast as the computers on a Skyline, nor will it be able to take in as many vairables. So a Skyline's computers are able to "tune" (so to speak) more accurately and faster than a Z32.

Also, behind these computers is software written by people telling the car how to run. In the nearly 10 year between the 300ZX and Skyline, and in that time we have understood how to tune a car better, and how tell to computer what we want more accurately.

So all in all, the Skyline is a better engine. Mostly due engine designers knowing how to better make mechanical engines and electrical engine programers knowing how to command the car better.

 

Its quite like the Euro Fighter Jet. If the computers where turned off, the plane would just drop from the sky.

 

Stuart

What about upgraded ECU's ?!!

In theory that could work I think. But who makes whole new tuned ECU's. Its also the sensors, are they as accurate then as they are now?

R32 R33 ECU is almost identicle to the Z32 ecu.

 

Later Z have a different ECU which I believe is the same as the R33. Sensors havent really changed much.

 

The potential of the 300Z is about the same as the Skyline. Its just the Skyline in JAPLAND is seen as the unltimate car, and hence more tunning parts have been developed, and more owners tend to tune them.

 

Leigh