Who will win lol

 

Anyone keeping an eye on the news??

 

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16121698

 

Take a look

oh and by the way, there will be no cut's in the sunderland civic centre even thoiugh every other council have made cut's

 

boil's my fookin piss, ive been in the civic centre and watched them all dardling about like they havent a care in the world

The books still have to balance...

 

The private sector is making all sorts of cut backs to survive and the public sector dont care? They want to remain in their unsustainable bubble? You know I have a lot of friends and family in the public sector because in the NE thats were most jobs are... but something has to give...

 

I also believe it should be illegal for nurses and firemen to strike, just like the soldiers and police.

 

90% of public sector workers would not make it in a job outside of the public sector.

Whats that based on Kev? I've worked successfully in both areas, and know lots of people who have?

im not bothered if your fuming, they were jumoping in the road blowing whistle's trying to get people to blow the horn in support, i was working over the road up the sacaffold and couldnt even hear what my boss was saying

 

they were in my eye's acting like moron's and if they were that bothered about their pension's and so forth they would have been on the picket line all day not swaning about in pub's

 

so get off your high horse and dont start getting arsey

 

As long as its on your "eye's" (sic) Allan that's totally fine, I still think its a terribly judgemental comment and i'm angry about it, which I'm entitled to be. I like it up here on my high horse thanks :thumbup:

It was only a matter of time until this got heated lol

Whats that based on Kev? I've worked successfully in both areas, and know lots of people who have?

 

I was at a bbq during the summer and a lass there who had a good position working for the housing department. I laid off the booze because I had a large presentation to deliver the next day. She wasnt bothered, just had to tell them she was stressed and would get an extra week or two to deliver her report. i would get fired!!!

 

I have a mate who works as an IT manager, wont leave becasue in his words he would have to start working for a living.

 

A couple of years ago he got me an interview to an IT mgrs job, didnt get it because I was over qualified and that threatened the moron who interviewed me.

 

I know teachers who have an easy life, because they dont do out of hours work like the good ones do.. I could go on for hours. Problem is ion the public sector there is no way to get rid of the leaches...

 

As far as the striking goes, in your words it is a public service, possibly a life and death service therefore it should be illegal to strike.. but I also stick by words.. Make the pay attractive in this job and you will entice better people and give them the want to work and not strike.. I honestly believe nurses are underpaid which is why they disappear off abroad.. Final salary pensions have brought down some pretty big companies and does have the potential to deliver a lot of damage to our economic state....

 

If the average working person knew what these people who never want to work received from the government then there would be a strike, commonly referred to as a civil unrest... lol....

 

I know they are different to your opinions Jane, neither of us are probably right, but f***ing good to get it off your chest...lol

He said 90% Jane, not all. It's a fact, it always has been. The reason the public sector doesn't work, is because people who can't do anything else tend to go there, AS WELL as people like you with a skill and a passion.

 

Unfortunately nurses, doctors etc. are all skilled people, who are needed. By rights, they should all get paid well and shouldn't have to worry about their jobs, unfortunately, they're not working in private healthcare, where shareholders and patients premiums pay their salaries, where they can actually get proper performance based reviews, they're working for an understaffed, underfunded, overwhelmed public health system, which has more middle men than actual medical staff and gives nose jobs to people with a complex, while turning away 70 year old men who need a hip operation to even walk around their bungalow (This JUST happened to my dad until my mum went to the GP with him and SCREAMED, until something happened).

 

My mother was a civil servant for years, as was my grandmother, my grandfather owned his own business, but was also a local councillor, my aunty, is one of the highest ranking public servants in Berkshire in the court system there, she's been a civil servant her entire life. I have friends such as yourself, who are in medicine and I know plenty of teachers too. The issue is, you're ALL treated the same, BECAUSE you're in the public sector. You know this when you join it. You can't then complain about it later. I'm really sorry Jane, it's JUST THAT SIMPLE. I work for an American company which is VERY much in the private sector and I get paid VERY well for what I do, I'll get paid even better next year, and the year after and the year after, until I retire, but I will not get a pension from them, I will not get assurances of a golden hand shake for early retirement or redundancy. If I went on strike, I'd be fired, simple as that. I have to do more work, produce better results, improve my skillsets, add value to the company, just to KEEP my job, let alone get promoted or a pay rise, the civil service just goes on strike instead.

 

As for the long shifts and working weekends, are you kidding? I've been known to work a 72 hour day before now, just to get a problem fixed, and you know what? I don't get overtime for it, I get a pat on the back from my colleagues, a well done mate, and if I'm really lucky, I get to wake up a few hours late the following day to re-cooperate. Sorry, but I got into my business knowing what it was, so did everyone in the public sector, strikes ruined this country in the 80s and they're ruining it again!

I always avoid these types of discussions becasue it brings out the victor meldrew in us all...

 

It's not a confrontation it's a discussion, i thought you pom's were tough. :gun_bandana:

oh and by the way, there will be no cut's in the sunderland civic centre even thoiugh every other council have made cut's

 

boil's my fookin piss, ive been in the civic centre and watched them all dardling about like they havent a care in the world

 

I just want to take a moment here to say you are the most blunt abrasive opinionated person on here.

 

Please never leave.

It's not a confrontation it's a discussion, i thought you pom's were tough. :gun_bandana:

 

That's pome please, I prefer that spelling, because that spelling means "Prisoner of Mother England" which I'm quite happy to be called, as opposed to the "pom" spelling, which means "Your skin looks like that of a pomegranit".

He said 90% Jane, not all. It's a fact, it always has been. The reason the public sector doesn't work, is because people who can't do anything else tend to go there, AS WELL as people like you with a skill and a passion.

 

Unfortunately nurses, doctors etc. are all skilled people, who are needed. By rights, they should all get paid well and shouldn't have to worry about their jobs, unfortunately, they're not working in private healthcare, where shareholders and patients premiums pay their salaries, where they can actually get proper performance based reviews, they're working for an understaffed, underfunded, overwhelmed public health system, which has more middle men than actual medical staff and gives nose jobs to people with a complex, while turning away 70 year old men who need a hip operation to even walk around their bungalow (This JUST happened to my dad until my mum went to the GP with him and SCREAMED, until something happened).

 

My mother was a civil servant for years, as was my grandmother, my grandfather owned his own business, but was also a local councillor, my aunty, is one of the highest ranking public servants in Berkshire in the court system there, she's been a civil servant her entire life. I have friends such as yourself, who are in medicine and I know plenty of teachers too. The issue is, you're ALL treated the same, BECAUSE you're in the public sector. You know this when you join it. You can't then complain about it later. I'm really sorry Jane, it's JUST THAT SIMPLE. I work for an American company which is VERY much in the private sector and I get paid VERY well for what I do, I'll get paid even better next year, and the year after and the year after, until I retire, but I will not get a pension from them, I will not get assurances of a golden hand shake for early retirement or redundancy. If I went on strike, I'd be fired, simple as that. I have to do more work, produce better results, improve my skillsets, add value to the company, just to KEEP my job, let alone get promoted or a pay rise, the civil service just goes on strike instead.

 

As for the long shifts and working weekends, are you kidding? I've been known to work a 72 hour day before now, just to get a problem fixed, and you know what? I don't get overtime for it, I get a pat on the back from my colleagues, a well done mate, and if I'm really lucky, I get to wake up a few hours late the following day to re-cooperate. Sorry, but I got into my business knowing what it was, so did everyone in the public sector, strikes ruined this country in the 80s and they're ruining it again!

 

well said

It's not a confrontation it's a discussion, i thought you pom's were tough. :gun_bandana:

 

we are tough, but also very laid back. in fact too laid back. unless someone either threatens our beer or someone boils the kettle to put a brew on.

we are tough, but also very laid back. in fact too laid back. unless someone either threatens our beer or someone boils the kettle to put a brew on.

 

Too True:lol:

That's pome please, I prefer that spelling, because that spelling means "Prisoner of Mother England" which I'm quite happy to be called, as opposed to the "pom" spelling, which means "Your skin looks like that of a pomegranit".

 

Carnies small hands, smell like cabbage.

 

Really?

 

Yes, nomads you know.

we are tough, but also very laid back. in fact too laid back. unless someone either threatens our beer or someone boils the kettle to put a brew on.

 

 

 

All tea scones hiding from the miserable weather and breeding innit. :tt2:

I was at a bbq during the summer and a lass there who had a good position working for the housing department. I laid off the booze because I had a large presentation to deliver the next day. She wasnt bothered, just had to tell them she was stressed and would get an extra week or two to deliver her report. i would get fired!!!

 

I have a mate who works as an IT manager, wont leave becasue in his words he would have to start working for a living.

 

A couple of years ago he got me an interview to an IT mgrs job, didnt get it because I was over qualified and that threatened the moron who interviewed me.

 

I know teachers who have an easy life, because they dont do out of hours work like the good ones do.. I could go on for hours. Problem is ion the public sector there is no way to get rid of the leaches...

 

As far as the striking goes, in your words it is a public service, possibly a life and death service therefore it should be illegal to strike.. but I also stick by words.. Make the pay attractive in this job and you will entice better people and give them the want to work and not strike.. I honestly believe nurses are underpaid which is why they disappear off abroad.. Final salary pensions have brought down some pretty big companies and does have the potential to deliver a lot of damage to our economic state....

 

If the average working person knew what these people who never want to work received from the government then there would be a strike, commonly referred to as a civil unrest... lol....

 

I know they are different to your opinions Jane, neither of us are probably right, but f***ing good to get it off your chest...lol

 

I think people tend to focus on the negative cases and the truly hard-working civil servants/public sectors get taken for granted/overlooked/tarred with the same brush as those over paid, lazy bureaucrats.

I've come across from VERY similar types working for a blue chip company too.

And re strikes, the nurses DID NOT strike yesterday, the Royal College of Nursing decided not to ballot members as the majority of nurses, whilst supporting their non-clinical colleagues within the NHS and being against the government's proposed pension changes, decided that it was not appropriate for nurses to take industrial action at the risk of patient safety.

I'm never ever going to support this government or its proposed changes to the pension scheme or indeed the huge cuts to the NHS. If you google a chap called Clive Peedell, he is a personal friend and consultant oncologist - he is also very anti the proposed NHS reforms. Its worth reading some of his blogs. I appreciate that books need to be balanced, but I also think that the short term, short sighted thinking regarding cutting NHS services will lead to some incredibly serious long term consequences for the NHS and healthcare in the UK, which will cost a hell of a lot more to put right and will set this country back 30 years in terms of healthcare

I think people tend to focus on the negative cases and the truly hard-working civil servants/public sectors get taken for granted/overlooked/tarred with the same brush as those over paid, lazy bureaucrats.

I've come across from VERY similar types working for a blue chip company too.

And re strikes, the nurses DID NOT strike yesterday, the Royal College of Nursing decided not to ballot members as the majority of nurses, whilst supporting their non-clinical colleagues within the NHS and being against the government's proposed pension changes, decided that it was not appropriate for nurses to take industrial action at the risk of patient safety.

I'm never ever going to support this government or its proposed changes to the pension scheme or indeed the huge cuts to the NHS. If you google a chap called Clive Peedell, he is a personal friend and consultant oncologist - he is also very anti the proposed NHS reforms. Its worth reading some of his blogs. I appreciate that books need to be balanced, but I also think that the short term, short sighted thinking regarding cutting NHS services will lead to some incredibly serious long term consequences for the NHS and healthcare in the UK, which will cost a hell of a lot more to put right and will set this country back 30 years in terms of healthcare

 

If healthcare is such a underpaid sector, why would you go through all the qualifications knowing the pay rate? why not pick a different career?

 

Failing that why not get a job at a private hospital or gp/clinic or something instead.

 

If you feel you are being severely underpaid and overworked, do something about it.

 

Hell i used to work the vineyard pruning season, for 4 months doing 70-80 hour weeks, making $1300nzd pw (hollowpoint can probably put that into pounds roughly?) physical labour work, but i make enough that the rest of the year i can build cars and motorbikes and play video games. :donatello:

He said 90% Jane, not all. It's a fact, it always has been. The reason the public sector doesn't work, is because people who can't do anything else tend to go there, AS WELL as people like you with a skill and a passion.

 

Unfortunately nurses, doctors etc. are all skilled people, who are needed. By rights, they should all get paid well and shouldn't have to worry about their jobs, unfortunately, they're not working in private healthcare, where shareholders and patients premiums pay their salaries, where they can actually get proper performance based reviews, they're working for an understaffed, underfunded, overwhelmed public health system, which has more middle men than actual medical staff and gives nose jobs to people with a complex, while turning away 70 year old men who need a hip operation to even walk around their bungalow (This JUST happened to my dad until my mum went to the GP with him and SCREAMED, until something happened).

 

My mother was a civil servant for years, as was my grandmother, my grandfather owned his own business, but was also a local councillor, my aunty, is one of the highest ranking public servants in Berkshire in the court system there, she's been a civil servant her entire life. I have friends such as yourself, who are in medicine and I know plenty of teachers too. The issue is, you're ALL treated the same, BECAUSE you're in the public sector. You know this when you join it. You can't then complain about it later. I'm really sorry Jane, it's JUST THAT SIMPLE. I work for an American company which is VERY much in the private sector and I get paid VERY well for what I do, I'll get paid even better next year, and the year after and the year after, until I retire, but I will not get a pension from them, I will not get assurances of a golden hand shake for early retirement or redundancy. If I went on strike, I'd be fired, simple as that. I have to do more work, produce better results, improve my skillsets, add value to the company, just to KEEP my job, let alone get promoted or a pay rise, the civil service just goes on strike instead.

 

As for the long shifts and working weekends, are you kidding? I've been known to work a 72 hour day before now, just to get a problem fixed, and you know what? I don't get overtime for it, I get a pat on the back from my colleagues, a well done mate, and if I'm really lucky, I get to wake up a few hours late the following day to re-cooperate. Sorry, but I got into my business knowing what it was, so did everyone in the public sector, strikes ruined this country in the 80s and they're ruining it again!

 

I've done those long hours too Alex, working as a conference organiser and facilitator for a blue chip company, without overtime, all over Europe away from my family. Kudos is great but it don't pay the bills.

But I disagree with what you say about knowing what you're letting yourself in for when you work in the public sector - hardly the case when the government moves the goalposts?

So if its widely acknowledged that say, nurses, get a pretty shit salary for the job they do, why is it no reasonable for them to at least expect a decent pension in return? I mean, its all very well people saying things like "90% of public sector workers wouldn't manage working in the real world", like working in the NHS is some sort of mecca or haven for the bloody lazy - but in all honesty, could you or Kev do 3 back to back 14 hour shifts (yes this is what my shift pattern is) working with highly disabled adults and children with severe learning disabilities, who perhaps are doubly incontinent and can only be fed via a PEG? I think its downright insulting that people can make sweeping generalisations about the abilities of public sector workers and their abilities to work in the private sector (smacks to me of someone assuming that public sector is somehow more lowly than private sector) when in actual fact the majority of them work damned hard, are passionate about their careers and the people they care for and quite rightly demand adequate recompense for their toils. "That's just the way of the world" doesn't cut it with me I'm afraid. Hence my support of the strikes - why the feck should I roll over and accept that? How do you think slave and child labour ended? How did minimum wage and working time directives get into force?

If healthcare is such a underpaid sector, why would you go through all the qualifications knowing the pay rate? why not pick a different career?

 

Failing that why not get a job at a private hospital or gp/clinic or something instead.

 

If you feel you are being severely underpaid and overworked, do something about it.

 

Hell i used to work the vineyard pruning season, for 4 months doing 70-80 hour weeks, making $1300nzd pw (hollowpoint can probably put that into pounds roughly?) physical labour work, but i make enough that the rest of the year i can build cars and motorbikes and play video games. :donatello:

 

Well anyone who knows any nurses or healthcare professions will know that they're not just in the job for the money, its because they love the job and are passionate about caring for people (and thank god for those people) - but why is it that when nurses or other public sector staff stick their heads above the parapet and stay, actually, I think I'm underpaid and think its reasonable to get paid a decent wage for this job, that they get jumped on and accused of being greedy?

When I was in NZ $1300nzd = (circa) £450, the exchange rate is different now, but the living conditions in NZ are the same, HARD. When we were in NZ, I earned the equivalent of £30k, plus outside contracts and we were on the bread line, yes I said bread line, we could barely eat and pay bills. If people think it's bad here, try living out in NZ for a while with a family to feed, it aint easy there!

 

They have a slightly better system when it comes to healthcare, which would work really well here I think, but there just aren't enough people in NZ for it to work properly, so unfortunately you suffer a bit unless you're in the city.

 

They have a "subsidised" system, so it's LIKE the NHS, but not. You pay $16 (About £5.50) just to visit the doctor, even if nothings wrong with you, or it was a routine checkup to verify some treatment worked, etc. Kids get free healthcare under 16 and in education though, and their prescriptions are WAY cheaper than ours, about £3 from memory.

Well anyone who knows any nurses or healthcare professions will know that they're not just in the job for the money, its because they love the job and are passionate about caring for people (and thank god for those people) - but why is it that when nurses or other public sector staff stick their heads above the parapet and stay, actually, I think I'm underpaid and think its reasonable to get paid a decent wage for this job, that they get jumped on and accused of being greedy?

 

i support your opinion, on the nurse front. my cousins are gps/surgeons.

and my girlfriend is a nurse who also works 14hr shifts bak to bak. its not just the hours of work, its the responsibility. she comes home and shes still at work, shes still has, 'mrs ..... past away today', on her mind, shes bk and barly awake for 2 hours, then to bed, straight asleep then starts all over again. she would do this job for whatever it cost to scrape by coz she loves wat she does. she loves making a difference in people lives. but considering people like car and software salesman can make anywhere from 17-100k a year, and a nurse is in the region of 22k. its not really dare i say fair? i gues the only thing that makes up for it is the fact that alot of nurses love what they do.

I've done those long hours too Alex, working as a conference organiser and facilitator for a blue chip company, without overtime, all over Europe away from my family. Kudos is great but it don't pay the bills.

But I disagree with what you say about knowing what you're letting yourself in for when you work in the public sector - hardly the case when the government moves the goalposts?

So if its widely acknowledged that say, nurses, get a pretty shit salary for the job they do, why is it no reasonable for them to at least expect a decent pension in return? I mean, its all very well people saying things like "90% of public sector workers wouldn't manage working in the real world", like working in the NHS is some sort of mecca or haven for the bloody lazy - but in all honesty, could you or Kev do 3 back to back 14 hour shifts (yes this is what my shift pattern is) working with highly disabled adults and children with severe learning disabilities, who perhaps are doubly incontinent and can only be fed via a PEG? I think its downright insulting that people can make sweeping generalisations about the abilities of public sector workers and their abilities to work in the private sector (smacks to me of someone assuming that public sector is somehow more lowly than private sector) when in actual fact the majority of them work damned hard, are passionate about their careers and the people they care for and quite rightly demand adequate recompense for their toils. "That's just the way of the world" doesn't cut it with me I'm afraid. Hence my support of the strikes - why the feck should I roll over and accept that? How do you think slave and child labour ended? How did minimum wage and working time directives get into force?

 

 

Thing is Janus, I couldn't do that, BUT, could you do 3 days in a 3 degrees centigrade datacenter, with no seat and wearing nothing but a shirt and trousers (No jackets allowed) and fix a running server, that has lost all communication with the outside world, without any reference to help you remember what to do and talk to the server in various different programming languages to get it back online? I doubt it.

 

The thing is, you knew you were getting into shit wages and the chance the government could screw you over whenever they felt like it, just as I knew I'd be walking into the freezing cold datacenter and might have to spend 3 - 5 days in there to fix critical stuff.

 

Anyone play farmville? Well I'm the guy that makes sure your virtual chickens keep clucking. It's a lot harder than you lot think and I'm pretty pissed off that you lot take me for granted, so tomorrow, I'm going to speak to all my colleagues that keep things like Google, Facebook and the major websites of the world running, and then I'm going to persuade them that we don't get paid enough and people don't appreciate us enough, so we should strike! Then see how you all feel, when your virtual cluckers are gasping for digital air and begging for digital seed, you won't like it!!!! I'm telling you!

 

Simple fact is, if I did do that, I and all my colleagues, would get fired. Not within a few days either, immediately! The SECOND we said we were going to do something like that, bye then, we'll hire that bunch of engineers over there who sent their CV in every week for the last year and replace you all! Muhahahaha!

 

If I want better pay, I have to work harder, I have to make things BETTER, not worse. If I strike, I'm fired, plus unhireable, because who wants to hire someone who throws a strop when he doesn't get more money just because he wants it? I'm not saying my job is harder, it's different. So is the industry we're in. It's a horrible analogy, but if a Nurse or a doctor does something wrong accidentally and that hurts or kills someone, they feel guilty, they may be punished somehow and investigations may ensue, but they'll likely keep their job, if I make a mistake and your virtual chickens die, I get fired and would then find it REALLY hard to find another job afterwards, let alone still have an intact pension.

Thing is Janus, I couldn't do that, BUT, could you do 3 days in a 3 degrees centigrade datacenter, with no seat and wearing nothing but a shirt and trousers (No jackets allowed) and fix a running server, that has lost all communication with the outside world, without any reference to help you remember what to do and talk to the server in various different programming languages to get it back online? I doubt it.

 

The thing is, you knew you were getting into shit wages and the chance the government could screw you over whenever they felt like it, just as I knew I'd be walking into the freezing cold datacenter and might have to spend 3 - 5 days in there to fix critical stuff.

 

Anyone play farmville? Well I'm the guy that makes sure your virtual chickens keep clucking. It's a lot harder than you lot think and I'm pretty pissed off that you lot take me for granted, so tomorrow, I'm going to speak to all my colleagues that keep things like Google, Facebook and the major websites of the world running, and then I'm going to persuade them that we don't get paid enough and people don't appreciate us enough, so we should strike! Then see how you all feel, when your virtual cluckers are gasping for digital air and begging for digital seed, you won't like it!!!! I'm telling you!

 

Simple fact is, if I did do that, I and all my colleagues, would get fired. Not within a few days either, immediately! The SECOND we said we were going to do something like that, bye then, we'll hire that bunch of engineers over there who sent their CV in every week for the last year and replace you all! Muhahahaha!

 

If I want better pay, I have to work harder, I have to make things BETTER, not worse. If I strike, I'm fired, plus unhireable, because who wants to hire someone who throws a strop when he doesn't get more money just because he wants it? I'm not saying my job is harder, it's different. So is the industry we're in. It's a horrible analogy, but if a Nurse or a doctor does something wrong accidentally and that hurts or kills someone, they feel guilty, they may be punished somehow and investigations may ensue, but they'll likely keep their job, if I make a mistake and your virtual chickens die, I get fired and would then find it REALLY hard to find another job afterwards, let alone still have an intact pension.

 

Bit of a crap analogy tho, given that if Farmville or Facebook went tits up tomorrow, yes some people would find it annoying, but it wouldn't be life threatening. You're not responsible for ensuring people don't die (and I can promise you that if nurses and doctors kill people at work, they don't keep their jobs and are struck off the professional register so they cannot practice again) and you could lose your job any day anyway Alex coz that is also the nature of the beast. Its a bit of a moot point really. I'm not suggesting I could do your job and I could do yours and nor would we want to, but as a nurse I can't make someone better than well, I can't stop people from dying when they come to the end of their natural life, and to be honest, how much harder could I really work? Would you want nurses to treat more patients and measure output? The nature of care work isn't about volume of patients treated or productivity, its about the quality of care given, you're not comparing like with like

I feel I need to add something here which may not be coming across. I DO think Nurses should be paid more, I DO think Doctors should be paid more, I DON'T think their pensions should be taken away either.

 

BUT, I WILL NOT, under any circumstances, support public servants, who knew what they were getting into when they took their jobs, striking, causing chaos across the entire country, making my life more difficult, because they've changed their minds and don't like what they do any more. Tough shit, go do something else, yes the NHS would collapse, maybe then the government would run the country like a business and pay people appropriate to skill and effort, instead of paying one nurse who puts ALL her heart and soul into the job the same as one who couldn't give a ****.

 

The simple fact is, if you want money from being a nurse or a doctor, work in private healthcare, if you're good enough, you'll be accepted and employed, if you do it because you love it, shut the **** up. I know that sounds harsh, but if I did what I really loved, I'd get paid **** all for it, I couldn't then complain about that fact, because I made the choice.

 

Instead, I do something I'm good at, even though some times it bores me to tears, costs me sleep, makes me a fat git because I never get up from my desk, makes me unpopular because I'm ratty and snappy half the time, through lack of sleep and constantly looking at numbers and writing on a screen for 16 hours a day, but the fact is, it pays for me to have private healthcare, drive a Z, live in a nice house, have a decent mobile phone, TV, computer, console systems, etc. It pays for me to live and support my family.

Cup of tea anyone?

Cup of tea anyone?

 

I'll have one :yes: