Well the work is never done!!!

 

Started installing my larger intake pipework today!!

 

Jesus the 50mm pipework was hard work but this new 76mm pipework is a knightmare but were making headway ;) main problem is as its cromed we cant mig weld the bits together so like last time were having to do the joins with silicon but with decent clips nice and tight it should be fine :)

 

Other problem is the hole below the lights is not quite big enough so gonna attack the car with the grinder in the morning :p

 

Just to show how big the pipework is going to be now, i have taken a pic of the previous compared to the new stuff :D

 

Mike

christ, now THAT is proper piping :D

Owwwww that's big all the best with it

Strewth mate you crawl down that

Jeezusss m8 :p youve used a drain pipe :rofl:

that reminds me of a woman i once knew

that reminds me of a woman i once knew

 

 

Why did she have a Zed with kin large induction

how you geting past teh crappy plenum issue?

how you geting past teh crappy plenum issue?

 

what do you mean get the pipework past the plenum or the actual plenum design??

Jeez kirbz carefull hesham ferry dont sail into that pipe ff im sure hesham nuclear power plant is under ya bonnet conna buy you a radiation sticker

what do you mean get the pipework past the plenum or the actual plenum design??

 

 

the design

 

Its the bottleneck of the whole system.

Just to show how big the pipework is going to be now, i have taken a pic of the previous compared to the new stuff :D

 

Mike

 

God - it's the same size as a volvo !! :D

the design

 

Its the bottleneck of the whole system.

 

With the mods the car has you are 100% right IMHO

 

 

I told him that ages ago but he just bought a polished bottleneck :rofl: :x: ;)

kirbs where do you get this piping from?

Intake piping like a wizrard's sleeve :D

With the mods the car has you are 100% right IMHO

 

 

I told him that ages ago but he just bought a polished bottleneck :rofl: :x: ;)

 

you are right mate and next time its mapped (few weeks) the mapper should be able to tell me if he is struggling to get air in but for what power i want ie around 600 at the wheels i would hazard a guess that although its a crap design its enough to give me the power i need.

 

i have been offered a plenum with the 240sx throttles on it (60mm) but tbh i dont think its going to give me anything more than i have now as the turbo outlet of the greddy turbos is only 50mm anyway so i cant see it giving anymore benefit??

 

i think a design like the skyline one each side would be good

 

 

Only problem is fitting around all the cam covers etc and you would need to get rid of the coil packs so you would be ok Iain :)

 

Mike

the design

 

Its the bottleneck of the whole system.

 

the bottleneck of my build was the intake pipework hence the bigger pipework :)

With the mods the car has you are 100% right IMHO

 

 

I told him that ages ago but he just bought a polished bottleneck :rofl: :x: ;)

 

 

Simple rules of physics. Flow through a system is only as thick in diameter as the systems smallest diameter, therefore if you have 80mm Di that drops to 70mm Dia the preasure and flow will be restricted at that point. The other thing that will happen is that if you upp the preasure in the larger guage then the preasure through the smaller guage will increase incrementaly. That being the case youl end up blowing the plenum to fook if you over do its limit.

you are right mate and next time its mapped (few weeks) the mapper should be able to tell me if he is struggling to get air in but for what power i want ie around 600 at the wheels i would hazard a guess that although its a crap design its enough to give me the power i need.

 

i have been offered a plenum with the 240sx throttles on it (60mm) but tbh i dont think its going to give me anything more than i have now as the turbo outlet of the greddy turbos is only 50mm anyway so i cant see it giving anymore benefit??

 

i think a design like the skyline one each side would be good

 

 

Only problem is fitting around all the cam covers etc and you would need to get rid of the coil packs so you would be ok Iain :)

 

Mike

 

The guy building my engine said the same thing about teh outlet for teh tubs, however they are adding to the flow of air. just hope your right for your target. just cant help tink that 600 would be better attained if someone could come up with a decent plenum system.

Simple rules of physics. Flow through a system is only as thick in diameter as the systems smallest diameter, therefore if you have 80mm Di that drops to 70mm Dia the preasure and flow will be restricted at that point. The other thing that will happen is that if you upp the preasure in the larger guage then the preasure through the smaller guage will increase incrementaly. That being the case youl end up blowing the plenum to fook if you over do its limit.

 

exactly and the black oem pipework is all 50mm as well as the turbo outlet so putting anything bigger on the outlet side is not going to help at all??

 

not that i'm an expert :)

 

Only reason ive gone so big on the inlet side is because of the design of the zed, the air being pulled in by the turbo has to travel so far so as the turbo has a 3" inlet i have matched it up with the same diameter pipework so help it as it just works the turbo too hard by pulling on the thrust bearing so hopefully the work i am doing will help this and also give me the extra air flow needed above 5000 revs where i'm struggling

 

Mike

..

Flow through a system is only as thick in diameter as the systems smallest diameter,

 

true, flow will be limited by the smallest diameter in the loop.

 

therefore if you have 80mm Di that drops to 70mm Dia the preasure and flow will be restricted at that point.

 

Not strictly true, the volume of flow will will be restricted, flow rate will increase across the restriction causing a presuure drop across the restriction.

 

 

The other thing that will happen is that if you upp the preasure in the larger guage then the preasure through the smaller guage will increase

 

Again not strictly true, pressure acts in all directions, thefore the pressure will be the same in both bits of pipe.

 

.

Simple rules of physics. Flow through a system is only as thick in diameter as the systems smallest diameter, therefore if you have 80mm Di that drops to 70mm Dia the preasure and flow will be restricted at that point. The other thing that will happen is that if you upp the preasure in the larger guage then the preasure through the smaller guage will increase incrementaly. That being the case youl end up blowing the plenum to fook if you over do its limit.

 

Thats rubbish.

Flow through a system will naturally be restricted by the narrowest point but you still loose less energy in the rest of the system by using larger bore pipework as pressure drop depends on pipe diameter. Energy loss associated with a step up in pipe diameter is related to formation of eddies in the 'dead area' immediately after the increase before the fluid expands to fill the larger area. The resulting turbulance obviously requires energy, that energy loss manifests its self as pressure drop hence less driving force to get the fluid down the lines and reduced flow.

Same thing goes for a decrease in diameter, but the fluid forms a vena-contracta around the step.

Best way to minimise it is use gradual changes in pipe size of around 11 degrees.

 

As for the second part, the idea is to make the most efficient use of the flow being delivered by the turbo. The way to do that is to minimise pressure drop between the outlet and the engine. The pressure in the plenum will only increase when fitting larger diamter pipework because you've lost less pressure on the way to it from the turbo! The plenum will never be at greater pressure than the pipework supplying!!

Thats rubbish.

Flow through a system will naturally be restricted by the narrowest point but you still loose less energy in the rest of the system by using larger bore pipework as pressure drop depends on pipe diameter. Energy loss associated with a step up in pipe diameter is related to formation of eddies in the 'dead area' immediately after the increase before the fluid expands to fill the larger area. The resulting turbulance obviously requires energy, that energy loss manifests its self as pressure drop hence less driving force to get the fluid down the lines and reduced flow.

Same thing goes for a decrease in diameter, but the fluid forms a vena-contracta around the step.

Best way to minimise it is use gradual changes in pipe size of around 11 degrees.

 

As for the second part, the idea is to make the most efficient use of the flow being delivered by the turbo. The way to do that is to minimise pressure drop between the outlet and the engine. The pressure in the plenum will only increase when fitting larger diamter pipework because you've lost less pressure on the way to it from the turbo! The plenum will never be at greater pressure than the pipework supplying!!

 

So John would i benefit from increasing my 50mm pipework from the outlet of the turbo which is 50mm to say 60mm?? or would i not really get anymore or what i would get it wouldnt be worth the hastle??

 

Mike

Yes, you'll benefit but try to do it without causing a sharp step. If you do have steps then at least try to put a radius on the inside of the step.

Basically you'll get less pressure drop through the pipework hence less flow.

You can do calcs on when the change in diameter becomes more of a restriction than just sticking with smaller pipe but they're pretty complex for compressible fluids and are flow rate dependant too. Its the same argumant for using smaller straighter pipe or bigger with loads more bends. Will try to dig out some info on equivalent diamters for bends etc to show you what I mean.

Generally bigger is better.

Yes, you'll benefit but try to do it without causing a sharp step. If you do have steps then at least try to put a radius on the inside of the step.

Basically you'll get less pressure drop through the pipework hence less flow.

You can do calcs on when the change in diameter becomes more of a restriction than just sticking with smaller pipe but they're pretty complex for compressible fluids and are flow rate dependant too. Its the same argumant for using smaller straighter pipe or bigger with loads more bends. Will try to dig out some info on equivalent diamters for bends etc to show you what I mean.

Generally bigger is better.

 

as you know the main problem is the distance it has to travel!! also with the fmic theres some pretty tight bends!

 

funny enough after the turbo outlet it runs 50mm to the black oem pipework which is 50mm then 60mm intercooler pipework down to 50mm to the throttles?? maybe worth changing the pipework after the intercooler to 60mm all the way to the throttles?

 

Bloody cars ;)

as you know the main problem is the distance it has to travel!! also with the fmic theres some pretty tight bends!

 

funny enough after the turbo outlet it runs 50mm to the black oem pipework which is 50mm then 60mm intercooler pipework down to 50mm to the throttles?? maybe worth changing the pipework after the intercooler to 60mm all the way to the throttles?

 

Bloody cars ;)

 

Yes, change everything you can!

50 to 60mm is a 44% increase in area so well worth it.