You know this wonderful idea for pay as you go road pricing that Alastair Darling and his two pet slugs are on about at the moment? He's saying that there isn't a 'Big Brother' type issue, as many cars have sat nav etc already......BUT, don't the sat nav boxes identify where THEY are from the GPS satellites which send out a constant 'clock' or whatever? I can't see that the signal is sent back to tell the satellite where you are at any given moment. However, for the system they are proposing to work, then a data signal of where you are/where you have been and at what time would have to be sent back in order for the department to charge you? In which case that IS Big Brother! :nono:

yes and it will also be able to judge your speed, I can't see it happening, I won't fit one for one thing, its probably against human rights to be tracked like an animal

Is it possible the 'charging' aspect of this is ok for us?

 

With our enormous engine, eco-disastrous cars and low annual mileages, we'd pay less than people in small cars who do big mileages?

 

I'm sure it won't work out like that though! :x:

 

 

 

I know if you wrap your TV in silver foil and always walk out of the room backwards, the TV detector van can never get you. Maybe we could work out a similar system to deal with this. :rofl:

its probably against human rights to be tracked like an animal

 

Human rights never seem to have bothered our government before, and if this sceme is really to cut congestion then WTF are they doing charging people to go down country lanes during off peak hours? (I know its only 2p a mile, but thats still 2p more than they should be charging). Notice how they said fuel tax would be 'reduced' not abolished, so we're still gonna be taxed twice for roads we use once.

I was thinking that too when I was listening to those t0ssers talking about it on TV the other night.

 

I reckon it's just another pie-in-the-sky (no pun intended) idea from a bunch of half wits.

Someone probably said "How do we track a car?", some other dipstick mentioned "GPS", another dim-wit said "like sat-nav" and yet another pr$ck came up with "...so we can tell where the car is at all times by satallite. Fantastic".

 

This Think-Tank then submits their awesome knew idea to to biggist dickheads in the land - the government!

They all dribble over the thought of this sexy, new technological answer and plaster it all over the media.

The far more intelligent public (not including the arseholes who voted this government back in of course) know it's a total load of old *****x!

 

If it actually got anywhere, think of all the new businesses that would appear making little black-boxes. So maybe it's all just a new job-creation scheme really.

 

Time will tell.

Is it possible the 'charging' aspect of this is ok for us?

 

With our enormous engine, eco-disastrous cars and low annual mileages, we'd pay less than people in small cars who do big mileages?

 

I'm sure it won't work out like that though! :x:

We'd pay less than someone in a small car doing a big mileage, but, unless we completely avoid peak time traffic, we'd still pay more than we do now!

 

For example, they're talking about a rate of up to £1.34 / mile for the M25 at peak times. We get around 20mpg (as a round figure) and petrol costs around £4 a gallon, so for a 20 mile commute around the M25, we pay £4. Under these new proposals, we'd pay £26.80 (+the cost of fuel) for our 20 mile commute! :shock:

 

Someone who has been "sensible" and bought some sh*tty little diesel that does 50mpg because they have a 50 mile commute would be even worse off. They currently pay £4 or so for fuel whereas they'd have to pay £67(+fuel).

 

Yes, they'd get rid of car tax, but it wouldn't take many miles at those sorts of rates to make £165 car tax fairly insignificant! :nono:

Maybe if the whole country refused to have one of these gps systems fitted the gov't would forget it. What they gonna do? Prosecute the tens of millions of motorists in the country? Who's gonna prosecute us? Judges who drive who are also refusing to have one fitted? We need to stand up to this bullshit!

Human rights never seem to have bothered our government before, and if this sceme is really to cut congestion then WTF are they doing charging people to go down country lanes during off peak hours? (I know its only 2p a mile, but thats still 2p more than they should be charging). Notice how they said fuel tax would be 'reduced' not abolished, so we're still gonna be taxed twice for roads we use once.

 

 

no it doesnt bother our goverment, however it does bother the EU quite a bit,

It would be great if people did stick together over this sort of thing, but sadly they don't. Apparently there are only 16% of people who would refuse to have a "black box" in their car under any circumstances. Everyone else could be bribed by being offered lower charges, reduced insurance premiums, etc, etc. :slap:

 

And as usual the RAC, AA, etc seem to support the plans. :mac1:

Maybe if the whole country refused to have one of these gps systems fitted the gov't would forget it. What they gonna do? Prosecute the tens of millions of motorists in the country? Who's gonna prosecute us? Judges who drive who are also refusing to have one fitted? We need to stand up to this bullshit!

 

they have said they would need to win the public over,

 

however I don't think this will happen, its just a scare tactic being used in order to implement more toll roads.

no it doesnt bother our goverment, however it does bother the EU quite a bit,

 

It used to bother the EU, nowadays they turn a blind eye if you've got money or are powerfull (China), and our government is getting very good at paying no attention. Our civil contingencies bill (along with most of the laws we've passed since 9/11) tears up human rights, sets fire to them and throws them in the bin, despite all the protest and the fact that its highly illegal it was still passed.

It used to bother the EU, nowadays they turn a blind eye if you've got money or are powerfull (China), and our government is getting very good at paying no attention. Our civil contingencies bill (along with most of the laws we've passed since 9/11) tears up human rights, sets fire to them and throws them in the bin, despite all the protest and the fact that its highly illegal it was still passed.

 

 

china isn't part of the EU,

 

human rights is something always worth putting to the EU, it usually causes enough of a fuss for things to change.

 

Personally I agree with the civil contingencies bill, sometimes you know someone is up to something even if you can't prove it lol

Anyone for a revolution?

True china isn't part of the EU but brussels has no problem rolling out the red carpet for them and strengthening our ties (they even might get rid of the arms embargo), yet their humans rights record hasn't improved since tiananmen square. The funniest thing I think is the way Bush is doing the same thing, after all his talk about 'freedom' and 'liberating people' he then goes and jumps straight into bed with the Chinese PM. They still have child labour and factories where people are effectively 'slaves', we're losing half our production industry because they can afford to work people for £5 a day without having to spend a penny on health and safety.

Also that civil contingencies bill would technically allow the government to bring in riot police to deal with the next fuel protest (I doubt they will-yet).

 

Im up for a revolution- I call 'el presidente' though, the rest of you will have to divide up the cabinet up amongst yourselves

The whole police force should go on strike then, they wont sack them all because then it would be carnage!

True china isn't part of the EU but brussels has no problem rolling out the red carpet for them and strengthening our ties (they even might get rid of the arms embargo), yet their humans rights record hasn't improved since tiananmen square. The funniest thing I think is the way Bush is doing the same thing, after all his talk about 'freedom' and 'liberating people' he then goes and jumps straight into bed with the Chinese PM. They still have child labour and factories where people are effectively 'slaves', we're losing half our production industry because they can afford to work people for £5 a day without having to spend a penny on health and safety.

Also that civil contingencies bill would technically allow the government to bring in riot police to deal with the next fuel protest (I doubt they will-yet).

 

Im up for a revolution- I call 'el presidente' though, the rest of you will have to divide up the cabinet up amongst yourselves

 

 

actually £5 a day is a good wage in china, I was recently in nanjing and i couldnt spend £30 in a week, a good wage is about £65 a month, but the cost of living is very low.

 

ignoring china is not an option, it is developing too quickly and the goverments have to act fast to safegaurd our conutries future, sometimes the rights of the people are left until a later date when money is involved. if you paid someone in china the average wage in the UK they would work for you for a few months then leave to live off the procedes, it would be like paying a call centre worker £250,000 a year

ignoring china is not an option,

 

True, but we don't have to pretend they're the EU's new best friends when they're still committing offences that are considered 'tyranical' when commited by other regimes, regimes that we subsequently remove with force. (George Bush- if you're reading this I mean YOU aswell).

The Chinese Government's disregard for international patent law and lack of morality makes them hard to ignore but also dangerous and highly amoral.

They are very careful what the let westerners see.

 

They are very careful what the let westerners see.

 

Have you heard about the scandal to do with foreign inspections? China has been inviting foreign officials to factories to show other countries that they're not merciless slave drivers. Only they get shown factories that are in good condition, and before the inspectors arrive up to 80% of the workforce are sent home to hide the overcrowding, and the ones that are left are told what to say under penalty of redundancy. The workers love these inspection days because for some of them its the only day off they have all year

Another case of people not standing up for themselves... although the population problem is their own and no-one elses. Shouldnt be treated like shit though, no-one deserves that!

I haven't heard about the foreign inspector scandal but it doesn't surprise me.

 

I was recently on a job with a guy who is a freelance journo for the big national papers (he used to edit the Scotsman too). He'd been to China lots for work and said the Government were a nasty, grasping, power hungry lot and ethicaly very dubious and guarded about what goes on in their coutry, especially to journalists.

 

In a recent magazine article I saw a picture a tourist took of a dead baby (girl) abandoned in a gutter and people just walking past and ignoring it, a product of China's 'one child policy'.

True, but we don't have to pretend they're the EU's new best friends when they're still committing offences that are considered 'tyranical' when commited by other regimes, regimes that we subsequently remove with force. (George Bush- if you're reading this I mean YOU aswell).

 

never said we did, but its all a bit offtopic, the fact of the matter is, you can probably raise the original matter in the EU as a matter of human rights, :) i don't think china will have much influence on the decision,

 

china has a lot of problems, not are all the fault of the goverment, the people out there have little respect for animals or people, i was told a story of a professor killing himself and people poking his dead body and laughing, i also saw a cage not big enough for a rabbit in the UK housing 10 puppies, 9 of which were alove, one was dead, they push for seats and spit everywhere. The problem is there are to many people out there to keep track of and if you lose your job there are 2000 more people to replace you. But the construction work out there is very impressive, and the new developments are actually very well built.

 

Oh, chinese people generally hate westerners, love our money though,

the fact of the matter is, you can probably raise the original matter in the EU as a matter of human rights, :)

 

 

I believe so, but its my contention that even if they did judge the matter illegal, the judgement of illegality would be completely ignored by our government just like our recent additions to our terror laws. I think the EU humans rights convention has become essentially toothless, look at Burma massacaring its own people, all they got was a couple of sanctions that weren't even enforced.

little by little. They introduce these ideas to check "reaction" from the motoring public. Then once asscessed they implement it in dribs and drabs if the reaction was met with poor reception. Cameras went the same way if you think back? then they introduced the "yellow" cameras giving us a chance to allow us to believe it WAS indeed for safety. Now the mobile van cameras can get you without any warning at all. We are the governments best source of revenue and that my friends aint gonna change.

 

:headvswal

little by little. They introduce these ideas to check "reaction" from the motoring public. Then once asscessed they implement it in dribs and drabs if the reaction was met with poor reception. Cameras went the same way if you think back? then they introduced the "yellow" cameras giving us a chance to allow us to believe it WAS indeed for safety. Now the mobile van cameras can get you without any warning at all. We are the governments best source of revenue and that my friends aint gonna change.

 

:headvswal

 

Agreed, look at the identity card thing, people hate the idea, so they're going to introduce it bit by bit. First it will be non-compulsory and will be used to claim benefits etc. Then it will be compulsory to have (which we'll have to pay for I might add), then as soon as the next big terrorist incident happens it will be compulosry to carry them for reasons of security. Apparently they want the same thing to happern with PAYG roads, first truckers, then big cities, then everywhere.

Is it possible if there was enough up roar to vote a paticular party out (Labour).

 

If this was possible and could get enough people to stand up for themselves then we could realect another party or Labour will have to back down on this idea.

 

Not being funny but there is no way they would fit one of these to my car and if they did i would stripe it out and tie it to my dog and only do quarter a mile a day without leaving my garden.

 

People will get round these and corrupt the system even more than now, also are we going to get a bill at the end of the year for £1000's saying cough up you done this much mile on these roads, people can't afford to do that. F**K off labour you P***s and that's putting it nicely.

 

Tell you what if this comes in place i'll buy a loads of buses and park them in Front of every MP's house and say sorry can't afford to move them :D

 

That feels better.