Now running Optimax, with a bit more mapping, boost at ~1.3 bar (~20 PSI)...

 

485.8 bhp (flywheel) @ 7693 rpm :)

 

Twin-pop is probably next ;)

That is why you should really go off wheel hp.

Didn't I say this already?!... yes, if you're comparing car to car. But you wouldn't take an auto into a place like SE and say: I want 400 rwbhp because the first thing they'd do is rip the autobox out and throw it away. They've built an engine, and a kick ass one at that.

Didn't I say this already?!... yes, if you're comparing car to car. But you wouldn't take an auto into a place like SE and say: I want 400 rwbhp because the first thing they'd do is rip the autobox out and throw it away. They've built an engine, and a kick ass one at that.

 

 

I know. I wasnt implying that. I was pointing it out to Pete who my his own experience, gets different vaules at the flywheel depending on the RR.

Shamelessly stolen from the US 300 site... (just been waiting for an excuse to use it really ;) )

Cor like your graph Si :)

 

I haven't seen mine yet but I think I'll be a few squares down the page. Driven mine again today and still behaving itself (although I think the smoke probelm is comeing back, I'll talk to Pete as he did warn me it might).

 

Also gotta check with Pete to find out if he's put gas in it as I put in 64 litres and the trip meter showed 325 miles, that's roughly 23 to the gallon :p Quick and cheap on petrol.

 

With the way mines running and yours being 100 bhp more, you've got one scary motor Si. I feel a ride it in will be in order for the Eddie road test evaluation :dance:

Sure, I'll take you for a spin mate. It's a different experience to yours (different, not better). Yours still felt like it was thumping on alright. He put a load of Optimax in it when we were out (dunno how much) cos the needle was on empty. That's probably messed up your mpg sums.

 

I wouldn't worry about the graph and how it relates to yours. There's a glaringly obvious problem on that graph (and the previous one) that I'm surprised noones made a big thing about. No, it's not anything to do with rear-wheel to fly, or tranny losses! I've stopped quoting a peak torque figure - come on, that's a mahoosive clue :) Still, I was kinda thinking the lines on the graph look surprisingly clean. It's running alright ;)

Sure, I'll take you for a spin mate. It's a different experience to yours (different, not better). Yours still felt like it was thumping on alright. He put a load of Optimax in it when we were out (dunno how much) cos the needle was on empty. That's probably messed up your mpg sums.

 

I wouldn't worry about the graph and how it relates to yours. There's a glaringly obvious problem on that graph (and the previous one) that I'm surprised noones made a big thing about. No, it's not anything to do with rear-wheel to fly, or tranny losses! I've stopped quoting a peak torque figure - come on, that's a mahoosive clue :) Still, I was kinda thinking the lines on the graph look surprisingly clean. It's running alright ;)

 

Just been to see Pete, and he explained that he put some gas in it. He must have done loadsa miles cos it had half a tank in it when I dropped it off. :D

 

In my conflab to him this evening I confirmed that I had standard intercoolers. This confirmed his theories about the breathing, he thinks that I am maxing out the capable air flow of the coolers @ high rpm. (This was one of my wacky theories as well). So some new coolers will be on the shopping list very soon as this was my inteded upgrade path anyway, although it would be interesting to know if anyone else has hit breathing limits on stock coolers. Pete also got his "white board" out and preceded to draw some biazzare diagrams. I know a little more now about air-flow rate though an inter-cooler, plus injector pulse widths.

 

Simon, as for your torque figure I'me gussing you were in 3rd gear for the first part of your run, then the car decided to change up? (I am not an auto expert) :o

 

Talking of printouts, mines gone walkabout, so Pete has gotta do a re-print. :smw: (unless you know the whareabouts Si?)

 

Take it easy ....

 

Edds.

I like it when he gets to drawing diagrams ;) Bigger IC's would be cool :) Smaller turbos trying to make more boost is gonna equate to more heat. I've had the bigger ones for a while now, even when I had the same sort of turbos you've got. If you were thinking of buying them anyway then it's good that he thinks you should have them.

 

You spotted it then? It's actually doing the first part of the run in 2nd, then changes up to 3rd (1:1) around peak torque ;) I dunno if I can really quote that peak torque figure seeing as the whole run's not done in one gear like it should be.

 

The last time I saw your printout I was handing it to Pete just before he got in your car to drive back from Witham. He said something about laminating my last plot, and I haven't seen that again so I imagine they're both together somewhere :confused:

 

How did you think your car now feels, by the way Dave?

I like it when he gets to drawing diagrams ;) Bigger IC's would be cool :) Smaller turbos trying to make more boost is gonna equate to more heat. I've had the bigger ones for a while now, even when I had the same sort of turbos you've got. If you were thinking of buying them anyway then it's good that he thinks you should have them.

 

You spotted it then? It's actually doing the first part of the run in 2nd, then changes up to 3rd (1:1) around peak torque ;) I dunno if I can really quote that peak torque figure seeing as the whole run's not done in one gear like it should be.

 

The last time I saw your printout I was handing it to Pete just before he got in your car to drive back from Witham. He said something about laminating my last plot, and I haven't seen that again so I imagine they're both together somewhere :confused:

 

How did you think your car now feels, by the way Dave?

 

Car feels great, I put a post up on Saturday. Seems to rev round to 7500 rpm fine, no problems and fortunatly no det.

 

Any thoughts on that airflow theory? I know smaller turbos are gonna kick up some heat, but i am more interested in maintaining the boost higher up. I have the SE Stage 2 turbos which have the larger compressor wheel (if that makes a difference). If the Intercoolers can restrict air flow then, they could be my answer. The car is set to 16 psi and at around 6k to 7k rpm I notice they start tailing off to 14 psi.

 

Spose if nothing else if i get the coolers, Pete can advance the timing slightly.

Wot, you put up a post in a seperate thread, or the one you put here about going for a blast on the A12? You still had hangover-head when you put that one up.

 

Airflow restriction - I dunno. My boost seems to peak then fall off a bit. Alex's was doing the same thing, only /much/ more dramatically. I dunno how many other people have noticed this - it's fairly obvious using the logging plot in monitor mode on an AVC-R. Really, I dunno how much ICs will affect airflow, but I do appreciate that the process of compressing air creates heat - I was laughing about earlier 200's (S13's?) not having intercoolers - Pete said: well, running that little boost (as standard) with that size turbo, they don't need them. So I could understand that if you're trying to regularly make 1 bar+ with T25 hybrids, you'll have more heat to get rid of. I never had a decent boost gauge when I had those turbos so I dunno how much the boost would've been dropping off. Bigger ICs are gonna help you get rid of that heat you'll be making. What you might find is, even if you make the same amount of boost, if the charge temperature is lower, you'll make more power. You can't really go wrong with bigger ICs even if standards aren't restricting airflow.

 

I didn't have a proper chat with Alex about this, but do you /really/ need the same level of boost at top revs that you do at peak torque? He wasn't happy with how much his was dropping off... and kinda understandably so (it was dropping off a lot). If you're dropping, what, 2 psi?.. I wouldn't have thought that was a major problem. Probably worth talking to someone who knows what they're on about when it comes to this stuff ;)

 

Just a quick question about your lump Dave - you're running SE's forged pistons, you've had a bit of head porting done (?yes?), standard cams... have you had the block mig-wired? I'm wondering how much boost Pete is thinking would be safe to run on yours. I'm not really worried running 20 PSI (it'll go much more), but only because I went for the theoretically "bomb-proof" option.

Si, think there's a post on Saturday titled "Zed Tuning Update" which gives a brief but positive outline on my car's behaviour.

 

S12 Silivia Turbos are the Turbo Nissans without the Intercooler, S13's upwards have something similar size to the zed ones, but only one of course.

 

My "lump" spec is as you have said, although Pete said i've got group 'N' head gaskets (whatever that is). Dunno about max boost, but a while ago he said my turbos were good for 30psi of boost. I am pretty sure now that I must be close to injector limits some my natural upgrade path will still be Coolers & Injectors.

 

Got Arry off the SXOC board popping round tonight for a spin, poor chap's never gonna be the same again after a quick blast up the A12. :dance: Although his S13 isn't slow.

Sorry about the 200 comment - I had my head in some engine bay or other and couldn't believe the turbo was piped straight into the plenum. Must have been a Silvia now I think about it. I don't think it was Guys - he's got an IC, hasn't he?

 

You've got standard injectors too? Blimey! :eek: Sounds like that's a good next step. It'd be interesting to get some data logging hooked up and see what's max'ing out when.

 

A12 again, eh? ;)

Hey Si,was on the phone with Peter today very interesting stuff,but I think I am now going for a full Competition Engine Management System :hyper:

 

£££££££££££££££££££££££ not again LOL :rolleyes:

LOL! :D Alright Mr Moneybags ;) What's the reasoning behind it?! OK, so a DTA is possibly a bit easier to tune than a standard Nissan ECU - AFAIR you don't need to keep hooking up an EPROM emulator... but so what? Not trying to put you off or anything, but of the cars I've seen in SE with DTAs, none of them seem to wanna start from cold without serious cranking over :eek: Not exactly ideal for a daily driver. Pete used to recommend these before he got seriously into mapping the Nissan ECU. I'd like to hear why he thinks you'd need anything else.

LOL Si,you need to ask him about these,he feels that this is the way to go to achieve 1200rwhp:D

 

No seriously he told me to go for the DTA system,FFS Its never ending :rolleyes:

dta??? thought a decent motec/pectel/magnetti marelli system would have been more up your street?

d-d-ddd-ddd-dd-ddta's ;)

 

Haltec's (or some of them) are only about £600 and are pretty damn capable.

 

http://www.haltech.com/e11v2.htm

http://www.haltech.com/f10.htm

dta??? thought a decent motec/pectel/magnetti marelli system would have been more up your street?

 

Yea DTALOL more that capable http://www.dtafast.co.uk/

I thought you would have got something more known and established as a Japanese car Managment system.

 

I mean the DTA door sticker will look out of place next to your Greddy, BlitZ and Pentroof ones. ;)

I thought you would have got something more known and established as a Japanese car Managment system.

 

I mean the DTA door sticker will look out of place next to your Greddy, BlitZ and Pentroof ones. ;)

 

 

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: The DTA sticker will fit nicley over your :x: :slap: :D

Im aware of the website thanks, have looked into them myself :P just thought you'd have gone for one of the more expensive ones, as the DTA is more of a budget engine managment system, for those of us *with* a finite monetary resource ;)

 

Thanks jezz, haltech were the guys I was tryin to think of...hows about autronic, they arent supposed to be too bad either.

Aaaanyways.

 

Just curious mac...how come you havent got one of these babies already? With all yr mods already, Id have thought the engine managment would have been a required part a long time ago??

Dont read it the wrong way like ;) Just a genuine question.

d-d-ddd-ddd-dd-ddta's ;)[/url]

Stop it, man! I almost wet meself (again).

 

By the way Macca, if you're going to big up Pete at SE, why not say: Peter Rosenburg is da man?! ;)

 

Just curious mac...how come you havent got one of these babies already? With all yr mods already, Id have thought the engine managment would have been a required part a long time ago??

Dont read it the wrong way like ;) Just a genuine question.

 

The mods that I have now do not warrent an engine managment system,the AFR and the mapped ECU were more than enough,If Peter thought that the Motec one would be better then I am sure he would have told me to get it,I don't penny pinch and am going for the DTA because Peter has worked with a few of them and said it is all I will need.

Stop it, man! I almost wet meself (again).

 

By the way Macca, if you're going to big up Pete at SE, why not say: Peter Rosenburg is da man?! ;)

 

 

Sounds too much like a Peter Kronenburg HIC :duffer: :D;) So PeterR it is:D:D;)

I don't penny pinch and am going for the DTA because Peter has worked with a few of them and said it is all I will need.

 

 

For now ;)

Sounds too much like a Peter Kronenburg HIC :duffer: :D;) So PeterR it is:D:D;)

I think you'll find, looking at my latest plot, Peter Rosenburgis da man ;) I probably mentioned somewhere, it's not a final plot. It'll do for me for now. But there's the potential to go much further with my spec engine. Of course, I'll be here and putting up new plots as they happen.

 

I'm not saying you're doing the wrong thing paying out for a DTA Macca, but I dunno if you're gonna see massive bhp/UKpound increases over a standard Nissan ECU. I'm happy with what Peter Rosenburg has done mapping my Nissan ECU. If Peter Rosenburg wasn't da man he is, I wouldn't now have the car I have. Peter Rosenburg IMHO needs to be taken out for a darn big beer session :)

 

Expensive engine management?... pfft! :rolleyes: