Just a bit of fun, because I am stuck in work watching 3 international football matches. :(

 

How much do you think my car engine will produce at the wheels when its finished?

 

Its a manual.

 

The spec will be

 

87.5mm Wiseco Pistons,

555cc Injectors,

Dual POP with Apexi filters on,

JWT ECU (Setup for 555cc and Dual POP)

Lightly Unorthodox Racing Pullie

Stock Turbos with uprated internals

Greddy Intercoolers,

AVC-R.

 

It already has on

Mongoose exhaust,

Decat pipes,

 

With all that new Harness, lifters, O2 sensors etc, so it should be running well

 

Vote how much you think AT THE WHEEL it will have.

 

Just a bit of fun.

 

Stuart

So why do people say dont go over 1 bar with stock turbos because they dont supply enough fuel.

 

Make up your minds people.

 

I think the 1 bar rule is to stop the tub oil seals giving up the gost and leading to you picking out bits of impeller cos the tub has gone bang.

 

Beleive me what I say bellow does mean something.

So if I got the JWT 500 whould I need 555cc injectors then?

I have never laughed so much in all my life :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

I love everyones idea on why if and what is best:D Stock injectors are MORE than enough for STOCK turbos, the turbos will run out of puff long before lack of fuel all IMHO;)

 

Try doing the math, or connecting up a duty cycle meter then:

 

7300rpm, 88(decimal) TP = 98.3% Duty cycle

7300rpm, 90TP = 107.2% Duty cycle

7000rpm, 90tp = 102.8% Duty cycle.

 

And those figures DON'T take latecy into account which is ~4% of pulse width at 90TP.

TP of 90 is not unrealistic at ~1bar, and I've seen the consult duty cycle maxed out at 14psi.

Also bear in mind that when running injectors at ~80% then some control is lost anyway generally.

Try doing the math, or connecting up a duty cycle meter then:

 

7300rpm, 88(decimal) TP = 98.3% Duty cycle

7300rpm, 90TP = 107.2% Duty cycle

7000rpm, 90tp = 102.8% Duty cycle.

 

And those figures DON'T take latecy into account which is ~4% of pulse width at 90TP.

TP of 90 is not unrealistic at ~1bar, and I've seen the consult duty cycle maxed out at 14psi.

Also bear in mind that when running injectors at ~80% then some control is lost anyway generally.

 

When I ran the Conzult on mine the injector duty cycle was at 100% at 14.5 psi , although on the rolling road (Thor) I ran 15.5 PSI and the guy said that there was loads off fuel left and I was not running lean at all , but the tubs were becoming less effcient

Not that this is any help, but I was told injectors can't run accurately beyond 80% because there's not enough time for them to switch off before they have to switch back on again. So (apparently) beyond 80%, you may as well be running them at 100%.

 

Stu - when are you thinking your car will be back together again? This is a brave experiment you're performing, so it'll be interesting to see how it comes out. Fingers crossed it's all a piece of p*ss :)

Why do you need 555's with stock turbo's????? :confused:

 

just checked your sig - where do you keep it then? and how big are the rocks?? :p

No idea when it will be ready. If everything come back on time, I will have 4 days to put the engine back together and back in. :eek:

 

I also heard that the injectors lose thier accuracy when getting near to the limit.

 

I also went for 555cc because I wanted to change the injectors as after so many miles they cant be working 100% and the Nismo ones where quite a bit cheaper.

 

Stuart

Try doing the math, or connecting up a duty cycle meter then:

 

7300rpm, 88(decimal) TP = 98.3% Duty cycle

7300rpm, 90TP = 107.2% Duty cycle

7000rpm, 90tp = 102.8% Duty cycle.

 

And those figures DON'T take latecy into account which is ~4% of pulse width at 90TP.

TP of 90 is not unrealistic at ~1bar, and I've seen the consult duty cycle maxed out at 14psi.

Also bear in mind that when running injectors at ~80% then some control is lost anyway generally.

 

My Brains Full UP :duffer: :duffer: :duffer:

Beer-brain-filladge! :duffer:

 

Not that it's a big problem (Stu), but you know bigger injectors give you less accurate control low down, so you might find your idle and low throttle stuff is a bit wobbly. Then saying that, you've got overbore pistons and lower compression, so you'll have to get used to it running like cr*p when it's cold anyway. You can't win without losing somewhere. Honestly, I wouldn't have said any of this crud is a serious problem. If you're starting your car from cold tho, people *will* think you've f*cked the thing because it sounds kinda rough. Just flip them the bird and stutter down the road at 10 mph til it warms up! ;) Make a point of charging back down the road at full boost on your way home because it's fully warmed up and sounds super-sweet :D

The car fins like a bag of shit when cold anyway. :(

 

I was expecting the car to run worse when cold anyway.

 

I will just have to wait and see what it is like. Been interesting though.

That's just how they're /supposed/ to run, isn't it?! Mine sounds like it's running on 2 for the 1st 30 seconds - I've seen people stand and stare at it like if they just hang about for a bit, it'll fall apart right in front of them. It never does of course. It just warms up and starts running nice. Even my mum said it was sounding kinda ropey - now what the f*ck does /she/ know about cars?! As long as you're prepared for piston-clatter and lumpy idle, I'm sure you won't give a stuff what anyone thinks. You know better, after all... when it's warm, you'll be tearing up tarmac ;)

Try doing the math, or connecting up a duty cycle meter then:

 

7300rpm, 88(decimal) TP = 98.3% Duty cycle

7300rpm, 90TP = 107.2% Duty cycle

7000rpm, 90tp = 102.8% Duty cycle.

 

And those figures DON'T take latecy into account which is ~4% of pulse width at 90TP.

TP of 90 is not unrealistic at ~1bar, and I've seen the consult duty cycle maxed out at 14psi.

Also bear in mind that when running injectors at ~80% then some control is lost anyway generally.

 

So you are telling me that when Nissan produced the Z32,they fitted the wrong injectors?

 

If you want to squeeze a little more fuel up the rev range,then fit a HKS AFR,I had that much fuel squirting through that I had borewash :o Not to mention 5ft flames exiting the rear

Have it set up on a RR and not by some stupid**** that claims he can do it by ear :xxx:

 

Or you could always fit a Nismo Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator.

its above 90% duty they are generally considered maxed.

 

i do know that Smithy was running his hybrids on stock injectors for a while & he told me that he had checked on conzult/techtom & they were not maxed out!

So you are telling me that when Nissan produced the Z32,they fitted the wrong injectors?

 

If you want to squeeze a little more fuel up the rev range,then fit a HKS AFR,I had that much fuel squirting through that I had borewash :o Not to mention 5ft flames exiting the rear

Have it set up on a RR and not by some stupid**** that claims he can do it by ear :xxx:

 

Or you could always fit a Nismo Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator.

 

No, but they never set it up to run 15psi/7000rpm either! For stock boost and rev limit the injectors are absolutely fine.

There is no way an AFR can add more fuel if the injectors are maxxed out. All it does is fiddle with the MAF signal to force the maps onto higher load sites. Not very clever on a Z32 anyway as it will affect the timing too.

 

As for the Adj FPR, got one coming, but even then you have to be careful as in theory it should give 370 * (New base press / 3bar)^0.5 cc equivalent flow, but that won't hold true at high revs as the injectors will start to struggle to open against a higher pressure on the rail side, which is compounded if you run higher boost. It will definately require re-mapping otherwise the mid range will be horribly rich.

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that these are old injectors that have opened millions of times, and there is no guarentee each injector is 370cc, some will be less, some more

There is no way an AFR can add more fuel if the injectors are maxxed out. All it does is fiddle with the MAF signal to force the maps onto higher load sites. Not very clever on a Z32 anyway as it will affect the timing too.

 

 

The HKS AFR adjustment offers a tuning range of 50% rich to 50% lean of the factory baseline setting in 1% increments. Like I said my car had that much fuel the engine oil was full of Optimax:D

The HKS AFR adjustment offers a tuning range of 50% rich to 50% lean of the factory baseline setting in 1% increments. Like I said my car had that much fuel the engine oil was full of Optimax:D

 

Yeah, I know but it can only adjust if there is actually time to do it.

If there is 15ms time available for injection and the injectors are already open for 15ms then unless it can alter the space time continum then there's still f**k all it can do.

I know what you're getting at, you can put in stupid amounts of fuel with them but only if there is actually scope to do it.

It's inaccurate to say it offers 1% steps too. It offers 1% steps in the MAF signal going to the ECU, but that may/maynot give 1% enrichment, depends entirely on what the maps are doing. It's crude at best!

That's just how they're /supposed/ to run, isn't it?! Mine sounds like it's running on 2 for the 1st 30 seconds - I've seen people stand and stare at it like if they just hang about for a bit, it'll fall apart right in front of them. It never does of course. It just warms up and starts running nice. Even my mum said it was sounding kinda ropey - now what the f*ck does /she/ know about cars?! As long as you're prepared for piston-clatter and lumpy idle, I'm sure you won't give a stuff what anyone thinks. You know better, after all... when it's warm, you'll be tearing up tarmac ;)

 

51x - If I were you i'd get your car checked out - sounds like its running far too rich / you've got a vacuum leak.

 

"Piston clatter" - barely audible, and besides it lasts about

"Lumpy idle" - mine is running just as sweet on 555's as it was as standard.

 

I've said this before, but there're plenty of people here is JE pistons / 555's an I'd bet they're all more than happy with their idle.

John and Mac,

 

I think the best tuning comes from a scientific point of view and a combination of mechanical/practical experience!

 

I usually find that when these two skills combine that the results are optimised!

 

What john is doing with chips is unparalled on this forum, and I hope he continues to research this area! Since our fuel octane rating is uncatered for at this moment.

 

We can never know too much!

I heard as a general rule that the idle will suffer if the injector size is larger than the capasity of 1 cylinder.

555cc in theory are a little to big, according the the rule above, but only a little over that it shouldnt effect it too much.

 

Stuart

 

 

51x - If I were you i'd get your car checked out - sounds like its running far too rich / you've got a vacuum leak.

 

"Piston clatter" - barely audible, and besides it lasts about

"Lumpy idle" - mine is running just as sweet on 555's as it was as standard.

 

I've said this before, but there're plenty of people here is JE pistons / 555's an I'd bet they're all more than happy with their idle.

I know what you're getting at, you can put in stupid amounts of fuel with them but only if there is actually scope to do it.

 

LOL well thank F**** for that:D;)

LOL well thank F**** for that:D;)

 

Just a quick question or 2

 

How user friendly is all this extra power going to be. I used to mess about with bikes years ago and you could get double horses from most but the power bands became compress into arm renching sqirts and lack of tourqe everywhere else through the rev range made them quite leathal. Great for a traffic light grand prix or a track day but not a usable daily ride. So what are you aiming for? I find Big Ponies has a double cost.

LOL well thank F**** for that:D;)

 

Nothing like a bit of reasoned debate, LOL :D :D

Nothing like a bit of reasoned debate, LOL :D :D

 

Well he's always concise and lets face it . One thing I have noticed on this site is the wealth of experts. Once it gets into the management of these motors its serious stuff.

 

The big difference between this site and some of the American sites is that they don't all become experts after fitting a K&N air filter and they pool info about gains and disasters. There's something about us Brits that we don't what to loose face so we spend a lot of time in pissing contests. Remember the only way forward is to pool the info or you may end up with you dick in your hands at the side of the road.

I bet you wished you ever asked that ? :tongue:

I agree.

I have learned alot reading information on here, I have also learned alot about some people while reading this too. ;)

There is no 1 correct formula to making a car work better/more powerful. I know I am not doing things the most common way people have done similar things. This may be why cars in the US are more powerful as they accept there are no set rules for tuning an engine. They push the boundries, go off on a tangent and come up with some different results.

 

The main difference is that I am doing the work myself. Obviously not the boring and honing and stuff. But at the end of the day I can take pride that I have done all this myself. It's one thing to put your car in a garage, give the mechanic a blank cheque and leave it. Its another thing to spend several hours a day taking the engine apart, labling stuff so you know where it goes back ;) In the end this will be MY engine, not something that I paid for. What ever the out come of it I will be happy, as it will deffinately be more than what I had before as the compression was very low. The intercoolers, lightened pully alone will make the car run better not to mention ported head and the harness will be better than the one in. :D

 

 

 

 

Well he's always concise and lets face it . One thing I have noticed on this site is the wealth of experts. Once it gets into the management of these motors its serious stuff.

 

The big difference between this site and some of the American sites is that they don't all become experts after fitting a K&N air filter and they pool info about gains and disasters. There's something about us Brits that we don't what to loose face so we spend a lot of time in pissing contests. Remember the only way forward is to pool the info or you may end up with you dick in your hands at the side of the road.