Wonder if you guys could help me, whilst the past decade + of business has been a constant learing and relearning of new ways to promote and keep the best service available I am always keen to hear others views.

 

Below is a series of pm`s from a customer who I concidered had received a good service with a fair price and tech help to boot.

 

Unfortuntately there has been a problem a few months later that to be fair has not been substantiated by ourselves but as usual we take things as we are told as there is no reason to think other wise and so offered tech support and advise and later a replacement part, to keep cost down for us we sent the part by Royal Mail not courier as we normally do, the part has not arrived and we unfortunately do not have any other parts the same at this time, we offer warranty on used parts of course but for how long....I do not know especially with fragile items such as injetcors.

 

Take a read and see what you think of the latest comments, I love this business and its my passion and my life ( literally ) am I wrong here have we let this guy down? I understand the frustration of zed owners of course I do I own one myself but sometimes the give and take of business some times seems unbalanced with us often giving a hell of a lot more...any way read and tell me your thoughts, no adgenda just real feed back would help

 

Regards all

 

Jeff TT

 

 

Posted by d???

Hi Jeff , its D??? from Grimsby, got a problem with one cylider not firing, have put new plugs in, changed coil packs around and still not firing on the cylinder nearest bulkhead drivers side. I can hear a click from the injector but maybe not as loud as the other 5, have got a spark on that plug. When I removed the plug from that cylinder to check I couldn't smell petrol on it , would all this point to a duff injector? would you recommend trying a second hand injector? if so do you have one in stock and how much please. Car is a 1990 non turbo.

Regards d???

 

Hi D???

Very possible you have a faulty injector, but to be sure you need to test the resistance of the injector a good reading is around 12 to 14 Ohms.

We do have them in stock £35+vat let me know how you get on.

 

Jeff

 

 

some time later

 

 

Hi Jeff, Have you got another injector? the one you sent a couple of months ago has failed. Should I be looking at anything else as to why or is it just one of those things? It replaced the original that failed on the same cylinder.

Regards D???.

Hi D???,

 

Yes we have more no worries, however as you suggest is practically unheard of for a second injector to fail on the same cylinder with out some other issue been the cause.

 

Maybe a problem with the ECU output voltage or duty placing the injector under excesive load on that cylinder, of course could be a complete coincidence but as its a pain for you to change it again I would be checking all the cables back to the ecu as well as the ecu output itself, also check the alternator voltage when running, have you had any issues with bulbs at all?

Remind me of your address.

Regards

 

Jeff

 

Jeff,

maybe a coincidence but the original injector failed about two and a half months after the ECU upgrade, and the one you sent has now also failed after about two and a half months. use of car is about the same this part of the year. Have you had any probs with ECU upgrades before? As I say it may just be a coincidence. Will try to check wiring and outputs as best as can.

Regards D???

 

Hi D???

 

No cannot say we have had any issue with ecu`s after chipping more than happy to send you another injector though so try that and if the problem returns let me know.

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff , have you sent out the replacement injector yet?

Regards D???

PS, its for a non turbo. Regards D???

 

 

Ok all good.

 

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff, can you confirm the replacement injector has been sent, as it is not here yet. Regards D???.

 

Hi D???

 

Can confirm the original one did get sent out and was by normal post not couriier as I thought, I have taken a look in our stores and unfortunately we do not have any more non turbo`s injectors at the moment, hopefully the replacement will turn up soon.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

 

 

Jeff, the post has been today and still no sign of the replacement injector, if you havent sent one and don't intend to either at least be honest and say so. My car has been sat there for nearly 2 weeks now waiting for the injector. As I have said before I do suspect the chip fitted by you is a possible cause of the injector failing and I feel a bit let down with your attitude over this.

Regards D???

Edited July 24, 201114 yr by vodkashots

I think you have gone out of your way to help this chap. Has he sent the "faulty" injector back to you for testing? As most warrenties would require testing of the item before being fixed or replaced.

 

As you've said, it sounds like he has a problem else where that is causing this failure.

 

Anybody who has dealt with you knows that you are an honest, helpful and passionate person who goes out of his way to help us owners.

I think the service offered at Zedworld is way above any other garage I have ever dealt with. Your charges are very reasonable and your experience is invaluable. As people have often discovered - other garages can cost way more simply because the mechanics waste time pursuing dead ends, which you guys would be able to eliminate in a couple of minutes with ConZult.

 

There will always be people who think they have been treated unfairly and you shouldn't take this personally - its a law of averages thing. The customer in question may not appreciate the huge amount of effort you put in above and beyond what should be expected. I also think they have come to a conclusion which is more befitting of a 'normal garage' - i.e: someone trying to fob them off.

 

I don't think it is reasonable to expect you to send another injector, certainly not without giving you opportunity to examine the car first.

 

As a fellow zedder, I can empathise how frustrating it is to have a car sat on your drive not working. But I do not think this excuses the rather rude tone of the last message. You are right to feel insulted by this.

 

Its a bitter pill to swallow, but at the end of the day he has not lost 35 quid, you have.

 

As a way of ending this amicably for all parties, I would be more than happy to stick a tenner into a kitty - its just a case of bad luck, that's all. If anyone else feels the same, please say. I would like to think we could support Zedworld as they have supported us..

 

Cheers - Leo

Jeff

 

Firstly I would never air this stuff out in public, its a business matter relating to yourself and a customer. Unless the customer gave permission to have all his stuff posted publicly like this?.

 

If it ever went legal (not that it would for an injector) the guy could rightly or wrongly claim for a number of things including a Data Protection breach, possibly slander etc etc.

 

Seems he is expressing an opinion, maybe re send an other part or ask him to get the car in to be looked at. Tell him if it is another fault it will be chargable and that if it is found to be a faulty chip that you will replace it???.

 

I know some people can boil piss remotely, but some customers can end up being real trouble makers. A bit of good will is priceless...

never known a ECU to feck an injector up, especially only the one, sounds like something else is at fault here.

 

Love how he is saying about your attitude over something that still lasted him 2 and a half months, if it was brand spankers id expect it to be covered by a years warranty.

 

I think you have helped enough out side of charging him.

ooh, send one more, and do it recorded delivery this time.

As above. You'll always come accross the odd customer who is not willing to listen to any other advice but his own and unfortunately it all comes down to, the customer is always right (b***ocks!)

Maybe as a learning curve for you, it might be worth sending items out recorded delivery(in cases like this were it is a complaint). Granted, it does cost a little more but could also save alot if an irate customer decided to take the matter further.

 

Keep up the good work and maybe get an online and printed coment card for people to fill in once the work has been carried out?

If the post lost it, should be covered by their normal compensation. All you need is proof of posting (sometimes called "certificate of posting") http://www2.royalmail.com/customer-service/personal-customers/refunds-and-compensation/claims-process and even normal post offers compensation.

When I had my injector issue, it was probably triggered by faulty wiring which made the injector fail over time. The only way to find this was through what I am told is a NOID light to test the high voltage bit of the wiring. Surely that should be checked before any finger is pointed at an ECU?

i get this oftern and learnt .. all ways send items recorded ..

as for the problem with the injector i would ask to see the faulty one for testing

or even the Car/ECU

if if any parts are none of your fault then this incurse chargers

 

Mark

Jeff

 

Firstly I would never air this stuff out in public

 

 

 

Mmm.... never aring things in public is the very readon so much BAD practises carry on, any business that is afraid of transparent dealing likely has something to hide, the garage / parts trade has had a bad public perception for as long as long as I remember and that is a long time, its this very perception that makes our daily duties harder just to prove ourselves, bit like women in the workplace I guess.

 

Jeff TT

Mmm.. agree that getting the balance right is important and as I cannot offer a replacement part I will refund the original injector cost so as to take teh sting out of the situation as it were.

 

Still leaves me not completely satisfied, like we have failed somehow, I know that used parts can be a bit of a lottery and it was not like its a million pounds but still..... ok well keep the comments coming, really helpful guys.

 

Jeff TT

 

 

*UPDATE*

This place really rocks, a member ( will not name yet) who is booked in has offered to supply us with the parts we require to help this customer out, BIG thanks you know who you are:D

Edited July 24, 201114 yr by JeffTT

Hi jeff, as your still not satisfied in the resolution of providing a refund and the customer feels the chip may be at fault could you not ask the customer to bring the car back and you can diagnose the issue. If it then turns out to be your error or a fault chip etc then the work to fix should be free and perhaps an offer to cover the clients travelling costs.

If it turns out not to be your/your parts error then the customer would need to pay the costs etc that you would normally charge for the work.

 

That way it's fair in my opinion.

 

Just my thoughts as don't like to see this kind of thing from business or the customer

 

ta

Jeff, i think its a good idea to air this sort of thing, as if neither party is trying to hide anytihng then there should be no issues with it being made public. the only other thing i will say is that you have always been straight up and very helpful with me. you work in a niche market and i cant see you wanting to give your self a bad rep by messing people around. i hope this all works out for ya jeff and team. Keep up the good work!

Hi Jeff

 

Totally agree with you

 

At the risk of being shot down, it seems to me so many members think they know exactly what's wrong by listening to comments and advice, possibly from people with little more knowledge themselves. A classic case of a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

 

That's why when I have a problem with one of the zeds I discuss it with you or Jamie and get it straight down to you as soon as you can fit it in. Then job done and done right

 

Keep up the good work. Those who don't appreciate what you, Jamie and Lynda do are in a very small minoity

Hi jeff, as your still not satisfied in the resolution of providing a refund and the customer feels the chip may be at fault could you not ask the customer to bring the car back and you can diagnose the issue. If it then turns out to be your error or a fault chip etc then the work to fix should be free and perhaps an offer to cover the clients travelling costs.

If it turns out not to be your/your parts error then the customer would need to pay the costs etc that you would normally charge for the work.

 

That way it's fair in my opinion.

 

I think this is a good idea - keeps it fair and in the open.

 

As a way of ending this amicably for all parties, I would be more than happy to stick a tenner into a kitty - its just a case of bad luck, that's all. If anyone else feels the same, please say. I would like to think we could support Zedworld as they have supported us..

 

Another good idea and I'd be happy to step forward too if it came to it - Zedworld have looked after my Z for over 7 years and if it wasn't for them I simply would have given up with the Z a long time ago!

 

If the post lost it, should be covered by their normal compensation. All you need is proof of posting (sometimes called "certificate of posting") http://www2.royalmail.com/customer-service/personal-customers/refunds-and-compensation/claims-process and even normal post offers compensation.

 

If you still have your receipt from the Post Office then certainly put a claim in - you can do it all from the website and other than filling a load of boxes it is relatively straightforward.

 

Jeff, i think its a good idea to air this sort of thing, as if neither party is trying to hide anytihng then there should be no issues with it being made public.

 

...as do I - it shows honesty and a desire to find an amicable solution!

I do think that maybe keeping the users identity private at this stage would have been a good thing, may just be the fact that I am local to him but I can easily tell who it is with the location, car type and part of the name.

I don't know who Jeff is referring to and it wouldn't make much difference even if I did. I can see both sides and I would like to think if I was out of line, someone would tell me to pull my neck in. I don't think anyone has over-reacted and a little club spirit could easily see this matter put to bed.

 

Jeff has helped a hell of a lot of people (and yes, I appreciate he's running a business) and without Zedworld there would be many fewer Zeds on the road. I think whoever the customer was/is should not jump to conclusions - but as I stated before, the way most garages operate it would be fair to make that assumption. But anyone who has dealt with Zedworld will know they're not just another garage.

 

I don't think there is any need for anyone to hold a grudge over this - but I don't think its fair that Jeff should be out of pocket, for trying to help. Anyone else would have said 'tough schit' after the second injector failed. And rightfully so.

Hi Jeff

 

your right owning these cars is frustrating, especialy so in my case,LOL i think you have acted above and beyond....the service you offer is second to none in teh zed community in my opinion .....BUT you cant please everybody all the time....if you want constructive criticism .....then take an hour each day to answer emails from ongoing customers...sometimes it can take a while to hear from you..days and days sometimes!! but that just proves you are busy and doing well..not so good for the customer though ...

 

not having a pop Jeff, just offering feedback as asked for :)

There is always a thing called a telephone bud..

Hi Jeff,

 

As you have asked for views I have taken the time to write this, I hope no one is offended.. Its to give you how a customer feels and what a customer expects from a business. I run a business myself – no a garage.

 

This is interesting from both you and the customer. I have been there.

 

I ordered a recon gearbox for my TT. The company said it had been sent. No delivery. Waited. Waited and waited some more. Got fed up waiting. Also supplies were running low and we needed food and water so had to leave the house. Chased it. It’s in the post.... really OK ill wait some more. In the end I lost my temper, asked for proof and the delivery number from the manifest.... er no! They don’t have one. Great. That certainly means it was not sent.... Customers think Royal Mail is a get out....Recorded delivery is only about a £1.00 or two or even ask for a receipt as proof of delivery costs nothing.

 

I understand you wanting to save money by sending it in the post. How much did you actually save?

 

Would it not be better for you and the customer to say OK I’ll send the part FOC but you pay for the courier charge. What’s that about a £5.00. Customers should be happy with that. Let’s face it you sending another part FOC so shows good will.

 

However, I will ask here. The parts you send out are they tested prior sending them out? I could be wrong but I don’t think they are. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

I notice in your PM you also say you have more injectors, What you don’t say is Only One in stock.

 

Also, I am nit picking here as you have asked for feedback.

 

He asked

 

Hi Jeff , have you sent out the replacement injector yet?

Regards D???

PS, its for a non turbo. Regards D???

 

 

You say,

 

Ok all good.

 

 

Jeff

 

The above reply by you does not tell the customer anything? So that’s why he is has got annoyed – I would be annoyed with that reply from a business.

 

As for it failing etc, I’m no mechanic and have this possible wrong attitude here. We mere mortals take our cars to a garage. Hand over our hard earned money to a garage with what we believe to be a good garage on the basis that a forum/ person says they are good.

 

Then a month later its knackered! All we mere mortals want is a working car. And all we ever get is told it could be this , er this, or this and the list is endless.

 

Dave

Some good points here, just a few thoughts-

 

first the guy is obviously frustrated at his car being off the road & this does need to be taken into account.

 

next, with second hand parts if I was buying or selling then as long as the part is working & as decribed when it arrives then this is all I would expect either way. Obviously selling second hand parts as a business you want to keep your customers happy. Do you give any kind of warranty on used parts - this would be important I think as a business & list it as either no warranty given or implied or say 3 months (or whatever you think fair) - I would list this on the invoice sent to the customer.

 

finally you need to decide if it is actually the part at fault - has the customer checked correctly, would you want an independant report, should you have the part back for testing? Obviously your first interest is to keep the customer happy but you dont want to be stitching yourself up by not having an "official" procedure.

 

as for the ECU causing the injectors to fail - it is far more likely the other way round! the injector is the consumer & if fails in a way that it draws too much current then this could cause ECU problems!

 

Has the wiring been checked - did he give resistance values for the injector - has he tried powering up the injector to see if it actuates?

 

All my own thoughts on this matter :)

Thanks to all of the posts some real valid points and some real useful feedback, we already do operate a refund or replacement on used parts if they fail in an unreasonable time and in this case will continue to communicate with the customer until he is 100% satistfied, there was no agenda as I said at the begining more of an information mission which we can use to improve our service even more so, and as mentioned by a couple of you guys who did not agree with the openess of this discussion then thats your view and is fine, of course this thread subject had the potential to bit us in the bum and I knew this when posting but I consider improving our service out weighed the risk.

 

My conclusion to this is a very positive one and again thanks guys for all of your comments, I will take many of the points made and especially with e-mails and pm reply times ( thanks Steve...your right :wink: )

 

 

Jeff TT

Having read the PMs in your first post Jeff the only thing I can think of that may have frustrated the customer slightly is where you've not answered his question as to whether it's been posted or not with your reply "OK all good". The only other thing I'm wondering is perhaps how long you may have taken to reply to the guys PMs initially? I know from experience that getting a reply via PM or telephone has been a problem a few times for me leaving me to go elsewhere - which isn't ideal for me because of your experience with these cars. As you asked for feedback - perhaps this is something worth thinking about improving. HTH

jeff the customer is always right until you know he or she is extracting the turd

I wouldnt expect any sort of warranty on used parts other than DOA, unless expressly stated.

 

Possibly the lesson learnt is to make sure all parts go recorded delivery, then at least you can say it was posted here we have proof... etc. I do agree with some of the messages above though, perhaps the emails you sent back were not hugely informative. I can appreciate you have always got alot on and you are very busy but perhaps a few seconds more taken to reply might help these situations.

 

End of the day it is highly unlikely that the ECU is killing the injector, more than likely the 20+ year old wiring loom thats developed a fault. The guy should think him self lucky to have the advice and help from you, and for you to send another injector out, FOC, without any return of the other is far better service than 99% of companies out there! Its just a pity that circumstances have conspired against you on this one.

 

How do you know its not another injector thats packed up and he is trying to pull a fast one?

hi jeff i dont think sending used parts out to fix a customers zed with warranty issues is a good idea. I feel you should of asked for the customer to bring the car back to you so you can check the car over and all the previous work you have done. Selling used parts is fine but you should sell them as used and with no more than 30 days warranty. Also any perfomace upgrades you should really have a disclaimer in place as a lot of tunning garages do. If your asking more from a 20 year old injectors then there more than likley going to fail. I know my friend paid £1500 for a gearbox from Quaife for his golf which below up 2 months after buying it and could not get any kind of refund as it was going into a high performance car (500 bhp). I would offer him a refund for the injector and ask him to bring the car back so you can diagnose the fault then go from there. hope this helps