Its come to light this evening that some types of caliper mounting brackets could be unsafe! the ones in question are the same as attached to my TT and if the majority of the votes say they are NOT safe i will be removing them!!

 

I purchsed the Evo brembo calipers, discs and mounting brackets 3rd hand from a member and had no worries when attaching them to my car, I did ask for a 2nd opinion from my mate in the fabrication trade to see if the were ok, we both said as the bolt is going right through the bracket and into the caliper it could never come off even in the unlikley event of the weld breaking!

 

Please dont think i am trying to defend my self, i need to know if they are safe for me also.

 

I am happy with mine at the moment and i know that a lot of people have these type of brackets attached so can we have a discussion on your views please.

 

Its weird that no one mentioned when I had fitted these brackets they could be unsafe, they left it till I had them for sale?????

 

here are the brackets below and the way they are attached

 

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Edited March 30, 201015 yr by daZvert

The problem with anything like this is that the proof of the pudding is in the testing! Without being able to check the failure point & knowing what a full on breaking procedure in a zed is, the first time you will know if they are not safe is when one fails :ohmy:

 

All people on here can do is give opinions & will provide great reasons for & against the possible safety implications of these brackets.

 

Opinions will mean very little if one does fail! :angel:

 

Just my thoughts!

 

That exacly why I started the thread mate, I am not bothered at all if i sell any brackets, Its my safety,my passengers the public and any other people who have these type of brackets attached to their cars, My question is not aimed solely at the strength of MY bracket but every bracket out there, wether its a 1 piece cast aluminium, or a welded section! do we think the forces put on them are too much ? should we leave the stock caliper on or buy the proper upgraded one`s designed especially for our cars?

That exacly why I started the thread mate, I am not bothered at all if i sell any brackets, Its my safety,my passengers the public and any other people who have these type of brackets attached to their cars, My question is not aimed solely at the strength of MY bracket but every bracket out there, wether its a 1 piece cast aluminium, or a welded section! do we think the forces put on them are too much ? should we leave the stock caliper on or buy the proper upgraded one`s designed especially for our cars?

 

IMO I would only buy a caliper designed to fit the original mounting points, but thats just me.

 

If you could prove that the brackets were capable of withstanding the forces required including a large safety margin then fine - but that requires testing to prove! As it is these brackets are completely untested & the safety implications are unknown regardless of peoples opinions! :)

If in doubt Daz dont do it. you might only get one chance.

 

Brakes, and tyres is somthing you dont fook about with. Not worth the risk. You or the bloke will not know how good they are

 

Save up and get a proper bracket made up. or save for a proper kit. tried and tested

If in doubt Daz dont do it. you might only get one chance.

 

Brakes, and tyres is somthing you dont fook about with. Not worth the risk. You or the bloke will not know how good they are

 

Save up and get a proper bracket made up. or save for a proper kit. tried and tested

 

Wise words, wise man. :thumbup1:

 

Thanks for being sensible on one of my thread`s for once :biggrin:

Agreed. Its the bolt and the main bracket that the forces are put through, but if you have the option to have it remade in one piece then go for it.

 

Tbh, its not much use speaking to the "engineer" that made them anyway as its very likely made by a machinist and not an actual engineer.

 

This country is terrible for mixing up the term "engineer", in other countries the name is protected but here is handed out to any job title (sorry, personal rant).

 

If your concerned then find a qualified Mechanical engineer (or motorsport engineer may be more applicable) to inspect it.

 

My sentiments exactly,The spacer is welded for location only.The clamping of the bolt is what holds the caliper.Id go for a 10.9 bolt and not an 8.8 for peace of mind.

The welded part is only a spacer, so the welding itself is not taking any great load.

 

Paul

 

The only thing I will say is that you could use 10.9 bolts instead of 8.8.

 

Paul

 

:yes:

Wise words, wise man. :thumbup1:

 

Thanks for being sensible on one of my thread`s for once :biggrin:

 

I can be sensible when i want to be and its not very often so dont get use to it. :lol::lol:

:thumbup:

I can be sensible when i want to be and its not very often so dont get use to it. :lol::lol:

 

No, I wont, I hate you being sensible you cock :lol:

doh !! my bad.NOTE TOO SELF,CHECK PREVIOUS POSTS FIRST BEFORE REPEATING PRIOR POSTS :wacko:

^^Your forgiven if you get some more pics of your car posted.^^

 

Paul

Edited March 30, 201015 yr by 300_zedx

My sentiments exactly,The spacer is welded for location only.The clamping of the bolt is what holds the caliper.Id go for a 10.9 bolt and not an 8.8 for peace of mind.

 

Thanks for your input Jimmer, I have actually enjoyed a sensible club discussion for once, and weve nearly got round to finding the answers :)

 

cheers.

No, I wont, I hate you being sensible you cock :lol:

 

:lol::lol::lol:

:lol::lol::lol:

 

:D dont ruin it now!!

Cast aluminium, very brittle indeed!!!

 

Al.

 

Some calipers are cast aluminium and they don't break.

The bolts are not the weak point in this argument, its the quality of the material and the weld.You could make the bracket from chocolate and even by fitting 10.9 bolts, it will still break. 8.8 bolts which by the way are used on towbars to hold the ball on have a proof loading of 85,000 lbs and a yield strength of 92,000 lbs, 10.9's have a proof loading of 120,000 lbs and a yield strength of 130,000 lbs, both of which are far greater than what is exerted on these brackets. As stated the nub of the problem is the material chosen and the quality of the welds, which look good in this instance. Personally I would go for a set machined from solid and the material could be either steel or aluminium provided it is the right strength. Mild steel and aluminium bar can both be obtained with a similar tensile strength of 250 nmm'sq, whereas high tensile steel is 1000 nmm'sq. Most parts on vehicles are made from mild steel because of the cost factor and also the ease of machining or fabricating. Of course in some cases it is heat treated to improve its hardness but this can also make it brittle.

Edited March 31, 201015 yr by Old Zed

The bolts are not the weak point in this argument, its the quality of the material and the weld.You could make the bracket from chocolate and even by fitting 10.9 bolts, it will still break. 8.8 bolts which by the way are used on towbars to hold the ball on have a proof loading of 85,000 lbs and a yield strength of 92,000 lbs, 10.9's have a proof loading of 120,000 lbs and a yield strength of 130,000 lbs, both of which are far greater than what is exerted on these brackets. As stated the nub of the problem is the material chosen and the quality of the welds, which look good in this instance. Personally I would go for a set machined from solid and the material could be either steel or aluminium provided it is the right strength. Mild steel and aluminium bar can both be obtained with a similar tensile strength of 250 nmm'sq, whereas high tensile steel is 1000 nmm'sq. Most parts on vehicles are made from mild steel because of the cost factor and also the ease of machining or fabricating. Of course in some cases it is heat treated to improve its hardness but this can also make it brittle.

 

 

 

Thanks mate, some valid points there. I`m still half a sleep after just rising from bed :sleep:, so i wont go into any more technical questions just yet, but thanks for your input

 

Daz

But if the bolt is, as you say a higher value tensile strength, and the weld breaks, it will still hold the bracket in place, as it is a spacer bolted through to the caliper. If the bolt sheared, then things will be bad, but if a bolt sheared on any bracking set up, it will be bad, thus the bolt is the weak point.

 

Al.

 

 

The bolts are not the weak point in this argument, its the quality of the material and the weld.You could make the bracket from chocolate and even by fitting 10.9 bolts, it will still break. 8.8 bolts which by the way are used on towbars to hold the ball on have a proof loading of 85,000 lbs and a yield strength of 92,000 lbs, 10.9's have a proof loading of 120,000 lbs and a yield strength of 130,000 lbs, both of which are far greater than what is exerted on these brackets. As stated the nub of the problem is the material chosen and the quality of the welds, which look good in this instance. Personally I would go for a set machined from solid and the material could be either steel or aluminium provided it is the right strength. Mild steel and aluminium bar can both be obtained with a similar tensile strength of 250 nmm'sq, whereas high tensile steel is 1000 nmm'sq. Most parts on vehicles are made from mild steel because of the cost factor and also the ease of machining or fabricating. Of course in some cases it is heat treated to improve its hardness but this can also make it brittle.

Edited March 31, 201015 yr by AlanZ

Hi Al, how did you get on bud? did you do any testing? I only thought last night if you want to test yours to destruction then i will send you the other set for free mate.

 

Daz.

Ok, i have spoken to my NDT (non destructive testing) guys and their view is, and it is only their view, the bracket is manufactured very well, a good standard of TIG (tungsten inert gas) welding applied, and passed MPI (magnetic particle inspection) with no flaws in the weld. Tensile testing could not be carried out, due to the shape of the bracket. They stated, as many members here, that if the weld was to crack, the bracket would remain in place due to it being a spacer, as said before. The advise offered for future manufacture, was a wider sole plate with the bosses machined to fit into the plate fully with a fillet weld applied as done and a second weld on the base prepped to take a good fusion, only some advise.

As an aviation engineer (for over16 years now), and speaking to many of my colleagues, in all departments, i would and will be happy to fit the bracket.

 

Al.

Ok, i have spoken to my NDT (non destructive testing) guys and their view is, and it is only their view, the bracket is manufactured very well, a good standard of TIG (tungsten inert gas) welding applied, and passed MPI (magnetic particle inspection) with no flaws in the weld. Tensile testing could not be carried out, due to the shape of the bracket. They stated, as many members here, that if the weld was to crack, the bracket would remain in place due to it being a spacer, as said before. The advise offered for future manufacture, was a wider sole plate with the bosses machined to fit into the plate fully with a fillet weld applied as done and a second weld on the base prepped to take a good fusion, only some advise.

As an aviation engineer (for over16 years now), and speaking to many of my colleagues, in all departments, i would and will be happy to fit the bracket.

 

Al.

 

 

:sweatdrop::sweatdrop::punk::clap::thumbup::bow::bow::bow:

 

I didnt like to boast that my mate was a Lloyds class 1 tig welder

:sweatdrop::sweatdrop::punk::clap::thumbup::bow::bow::bow:

 

I didnt like to boast that my mate was a Lloyds class 1 tig welder

 

Nice one Daz you put them up for testing in open fourm and the verdict is they are well made and safe to use.Well done to Alan for taking the time to test them:thumbup:Case closed:clap:

Just to add.......

I am sure most of you are aware of "robo's 300zx info site", i was in contact with him approx 3 years ago regarding caliper relocation brackets, using 350Z discs, and he put me onto a guy called "Bernie Bilskie", you may know him, and he supplied me a set of brackets and 350Z discs for use with the standard caliper. The bracket was machined from billet aluminium and 350Z track (brembo) discs, which i fitted. The brackets looked well manufactured, but the corner machined radii was very minimal and no specification for aluminium used was given, that was 3 years ago. I have done a track day at Snetterton, many laps at the Nurburgring ring, and still the brackets have withstood very heavy braking. I have warped 3 sets of discs to date, but the brackets are still intake with no cracks evident. I suppose i took a chance, put my balls on the line, with these brackets, and they have been fine. Just a little insight to what i have tried and tested, if you like, on my 300 braking system.

 

Al.

Nice one Daz you put them up for testing in open fourm and the verdict is they are well made and safe to use.Well done to Alan for taking the time to test them:thumbup:Case closed:clap:

 

Yeh Thanks Gaz, I will admit that i was a little worried, I have just phoned my mate who fabricated the brackets and read Alanz mail to him, he said he wasn`t worried at all and confident of his workmanship.

 

I will be taking my old brackets off and replacing them with my shiny new ones, And NO I`m not selling anymore.

Daz matey,

Give it 2, 3, 5, 10 years then we can start a thread entitled....."Guess what, My caliper brackets are still in great shape!"

LOL....

 

Al.